A set, a scare card, and a check raise

[Lloyd]

With a deep stack I'm probably going to call any bet on the river including a push (at least if there's no club). Obviously, I wouldn't be thrilled about facing a push but I think he does that more often than not without a Q. If there's a club, I'm probably still going to call most if not all bets.

This really is a stack size issue. Given his range of hands you can take a hit in the event he does have a Q even for a pot sized bet. And if he pushes it's such an overbet that I think the liklihood of you having the best goes up quite a bit.

The suggestion of checking behind on the turn has more to do with allowing him to bluff at the river then the fact you were check-raised. Obviously if I'm saying that I'd call any bet on the river I would also call his check-raise. Now, if you made a strong bet on the flop and a strong bet on the river and where then check-raised, things might be a little different.

[EverettKings]

Yeah I like a flop pot bet and a turn check.

Betting the turn is an entirely too thin value bet. He will not be calling you here with many hands, but he may make a fat checkraise that puts you in a bad spot like this. But if you check the turn, he won't open push his Q on the river but instead just lead it out. Also, more often, he will bluff bet the river will all sorts of crap. If you don't fill up on the river you can just call him. If you do, you can stick in a nice raise. If he checks the river again to you, then it's time for a value bet.

On a more general note, against a loose cannon like this there is no need to play your KK so slow. He'll pay up with lots of stuff so don't be afraid to get your money in. Raise his BB more aggressively, pot the flop, etc.

Everett

[AtticusFinch]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree that checking behind the turn might have been a better way to go (at least once I've painted myself into this corner by betting too little on the flop). If the river is a blank (no club, no boat) what's your plan if villain pots it? If he bets 1/2 pot? Pushes? The way I played it it's very dificult to put him on a tight range here, but I agree that against this particular villain the turn check/raise doesn't mean he must have a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you check behind on the turn and a blank falls, I think you insta-call any bet, including a push, that doesn't cripple you if you lose.

If the loss would cripple you, it's read dependent. Most guys with a made straight or flush won't push the river, here. Rather, they'll bet smaller, hoping for a call. If that's your read, and a push looks more like a bluff, then sure, call it down.

[qbler]

Thanks for the thoughts guys, good stuff. I was pretty sure I had muffed this one. For what it's worth I called him down and he flipped over 77, which I definitely did not see coming (I hit quads on the river anyway). Was on a roll for a while after this hand until redsoxsox knocked me out with AA over my QQ. Maybe next time...

[Lloyd]

Nice call. It's very read dependent and you being at the table had the instincts to make the right decision. We lose a lot of that feeling in most posts but it was clear by the way you described him that he was capable of making this type of move.