Wow. Just . . . WOW. (Sorry, LC)

[Grisgra]

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sorry i mixed up beer and mikes posts. put together they sound bitter. ignore me sorry.

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Definitely bitter Beer [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]. Didn't think there was anything wrong with Mike's response though. Obviously, I'm a Stud newbie, all I have is a quick first impression of the games.

[Michael Emery]

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Quote:

Quote:
what is the expected win rate for someone who knows what they're doing on these tables? Eleventy-billion BB/100 or so? I'm guessing?



The full moon must have really helped. But despite what you might think, the party stud games arent nearly as profitable as their hold'em counterparts at any limit. I'm not sure what limit you were playing at but you can call yourself a stud expert if you can average 1BB/hr in 10-20 or 20-40 over time.

Mike Emery



No offense mike but you seem a little bitter in this thread. Speculating about wr it's silly first of all, secondly there is absolutely no way for you to know this. I don't care how many hands you've played it's nowhere near enough to be so definitive.


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I'm not bitter in any manner. I just was pointing out that winrates described by some just arent realistic. I dont want people in the doldrums when they are soild players but cant make the "expected" 4-5 BB's per hour in 5-10, or over 1BB per hr. in 10-20.

In regards to the "there is no way you can know this, I dont care how many hands you've played", this is a little silly. As I stated in a earlier post I have played more hands than you could fathom (deep into six figures) in those party stud games. I have also consulted and discussed winrates with some of the best party stud players. The fact that our winrates are very close over time at certain limits is no suprise or coincidence. I can be "very definitive" when I say certain winrates are unattainable.

Mike Emery

[beset7]

my bad <crawling back into lurk mode>.

[grb137]

Two things. First, PP is full of fish - don't be mad about it, just take advantage of it. E.g. don't represent trips if you don't really have it. You'll get plenty of callers when you do, so there's no need to try to make money bluffing.

Second, there are a TON of people, like you, who bet trying to represent trips when they don't really have it. People know this, and it gives them reason to call down. Again, don't be mad about it, but rather take advantage of it!

I think its hard to generalize a win rate...afterall, people's skill varies, don't you think? I do well at Stud, and I suck at HE, so I would tend to say stud is more profitable. Emery kicks a$$ on HE, so naturally he thinks its more profitable.

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Two things. First, PP is full of fish - don't be mad about it, just take advantage of it. E.g. don't represent trips if you don't really have it. You'll get plenty of callers when you do, so there's no need to try to make money bluffing.

Second, there are a TON of people, like you, who bet trying to represent trips when they don't really have it. People know this, and it gives them reason to call down. Again, don't be mad about it, but rather take advantage of it!

I think its hard to generalize a win rate...afterall, people's skill varies, don't you think? I do well at Stud, and I suck at HE, so I would tend to say stud is more profitable. Emery kicks a$$ on HE, so naturally he thinks its more profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, no complaining here. I went on a 50BB rush over 110 hands . . . I had some luck, but at least half of that was from people calling me down after I paired my door card. This was Party 5/10, not higher . . . but I can't believe that the 5/10 isn't beatable for at least 3-4BB/100, if not more. (I'm guessing that just like the Stud8 games, there's a very wide differential in player quality between the 5/10 Stud games and the 10/20 Stud games.)

Or maybe I just got lucky and sat down at two tables stocked with more fish than usual. Talk about your small sample sizes. Still . . . damn.

Goes without saying I completely agree with that no-bluffing thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[BeerMoney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Two things. First, PP is full of fish - don't be mad about it, just take advantage of it. E.g. don't represent trips if you don't really have it. You'll get plenty of callers when you do, so there's no need to try to make money bluffing.

Second, there are a TON of people, like you, who bet trying to represent trips when they don't really have it. People know this, and it gives them reason to call down. Again, don't be mad about it, but rather take advantage of it!

I think its hard to generalize a win rate...afterall, people's skill varies, don't you think? I do well at Stud, and I suck at HE, so I would tend to say stud is more profitable. Emery kicks a$$ on HE, so naturally he thinks its more profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust me, no complaining here. I went on a 50BB rush over 110 hands . . . I had some luck, but at least half of that was from people calling me down after I paired my door card. This was Party 5/10, not higher . . . but I can't believe that the 5/10 isn't beatable for at least 3-4BB/100, if not more. (I'm guessing that just like the Stud8 games, there's a very wide differential in player quality between the 5/10 Stud games and the 10/20 Stud games.)

Or maybe I just got lucky and sat down at two tables stocked with more fish than usual. Talk about your small sample sizes. Still . . . damn.

Goes without saying I completely agree with that no-bluffing thing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]


Do you think its normal to get trips a lot over 110 hands? I can play a week without pairing my door card. Congratulations. You won a lot in one night. Quit your day job and become a poker pro.

[Grisgra]

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Do you think its normal to get trips a lot over 110 hands? I can play a week without pairing my door card. Congratulations. You won a lot in one night. Quit your day job and become a poker pro.

[/ QUOTE ]

No need to get all smarmy. I'm going to pair my door card on 4th street around 5% of the time (if it's already paired, i.e., it's a 2-outer) and 7% of the time if it's not. So around 1/15 or 1/20 of the hands I play -- and that's just 4th street. Not exactly a super-rare occurrence.

Was just surprised that almost nobody at the 5/10 game seems to care when it happens, and just calls me down all the way. It's generalizable to other instances -- cases where it's obvious they're beaten but they'll chase those 4-outers all the way to the river.

By the way, I multitable 10/20 and 20/40 shorthanded limit HE, and could quit my day job and become a poker pro anytime I wanted. So nyeah.

[BeerMoney]

Maybe you were cracking some big hands that you didn't have any business playing against.. e.g., someone has aces and you pair your doorcard with deuces. I'll assume you're smart enough to realize that short run swings like this usually mean a player is playing too loose.

[DeadMoneyOC]

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By the way, I multitable 10/20 and 20/40 shorthanded limit HE, and could quit my day job and become a poker pro anytime I wanted. So nyeah.

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So nyeah...we got a tough guy on our hands here...

[grb137]

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Congratulations. You won a lot in one night. Quit your day job and become a poker pro.

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This is an uncharacteristic tone from you -- having a bad night at the tables?