52s in the BB

[cornell2005]

bet the river and fold to a decent raise. i didnt look at the rest really.

[AncientPC]

I don't understansd why you would bet out with no strong draws and out of position.

Fold to the river overbet, you're most likely behind and the chances you are ahead of someone you better be 100% certain because calling $15 to win a $25 pot is not very profitable.

[Tilt]

I cannot believe how many people are suggesting you fold here. Its so unbelievably weak-tight I just dont get it. Fold a flush to an obviously overplayed trip? I can't get over it....its just such a bad move. Weak, weak play.

[TM1212]

Let’s go through this slowly tilt

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You can go through life calling with only the nuts. It would be very boring and a much lower profit existence. But, I guess you won't lose much money!


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Actually, I know plenty of player who only play the nuts to a big raise on the river at the $25 party level. Many of them are very profitable players, because the skill level is very low on party, and players will play anything.

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All of the hands you listed barring the nut flush would require you to assume your opponent is slowplaying trips or top pair with a draw on the board. That is very poor play. Most players, believe it or not, are willing to make a bet with something less than a full boat. Its a definite call at this level.


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Actually any flush draw would have him drawing the whole way (not raising) not just the nuts and would not require a slowplay. It is also very possible that that someone slowplayed treps. I personally play higher stakes, but I have seen many weak player at this level who only raise on the river with a very strong hand.
The biggest reason for folding here is you only beat a PURE BLUFF! (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) . Trep sevens is possible, but the call on the flop would make no sense. SO ONE MORE TIME HE ONLY BEATS A BLUFF. No one raises here with 2 pair and expects to win if there called.

If he wants to lead out with a bet and then fold that’s a fine play to but the only option is to fold to a raise.

You have 2.50 committed to this hand, and your going to risk 15. Personally I can wait for a better situation especially since I know I’m a better player and eventually Ill get my opportunity to bust these fish. But since your clearly a pretty weak player yourself, you can just call off your 15 and hope he’s bluffing, because you won’t have to many more opportunities.

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The flop bet was a fine idea. You are about 1 in 3 to take down this hand with a flush at this point. If you get three callers, then, you are increasing EV. Even if you discount the fact that you may be up against a higher flush draw (who should raise with a K of diamonds) you still have the chance of getting the table to fold. Plus, you improve your implied odds by disguising your hand....leading a player with a 7 to now overbet the river. But I guess you since you wont call that down that was a waste. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]


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This makes no sense. Your 1 to 3 to take down 1.50 pot, while risking $2.00 raise (that’s a fine play?), what if someone raises? Your force to surrender your $2.00 bet. Or you call and give him a read of your hand, and possible surrender odds to him (size of raise depending). Then the turn comes a brick and you have to fold.

Or what if someone calls? You have to assume a flush draw. There is only value in a raise on the flop if you lead on the river, or on the turn, because you can‘t bluff by checking (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) .

Why would someone call with the 7 after the flop? Makes no sense. Even the weakest of calling stations would usually lay down this hand. And no calling station weak enough to play a 7 in this situation would understand the concept of an over bet on the river.

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Also, this flop bet increases the chance that you will get a free card on the turn, which is exactly what happened.


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The only way your seeing a free card on the river is if your already drawing dead. Any hand that has you beat except a flush draw would raise here. Most importantly your forgetting his horrible position.

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I cannot believe how many people are suggesting you fold here. Its so unbelievably weak-tight I just dont get it. Fold a flush to an obviously overplayed trip? I can't get over it....its just such a bad move. Weak, weak play.


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ACTUALLY A CALL IS A WEAK PLAY!!!! You only beat a trep 7’s or a bluff!!! (and I’ve already explained how trep 7’s are very unlikely) A fold here is the correct play. If you have a read and this guy bluffs from time to time, fine call it’ll be a slightly profitable play. But with no read calling a $15 raise here is a horrible play.

Also I recommend you be a 2+2er for at least a month before you get fresh, and call the correct play "weak"

[Tilt]

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Actually, I know plenty of player who only play the nuts to a big raise on the river at the $25 party level. Many of them are very profitable players, because the skill level is very low on party, and players will play anything.

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Of course they are profitable. But god they are wasting alot of time. And missing out on a lot more money.

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Actually any flush draw would have him drawing the whole way (not raising) not just the nuts and would not require a slowplay. It is also very possible that that someone slowplayed treps. I personally play higher stakes, but I have seen many weak player at this level who only raise on the river with a very strong hand.

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Its very possible you are beaten. But to be so you have to assume your opponent is playing very weakly and very tight with two pair or hidden trips....or that he has a higher flush. The former I would not expect, the latter is just not likely enough to fold 15 for a shot at 25.

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The biggest reason for folding here is you only beat a PURE BLUFF! (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) . Trep sevens is possible, but the call on the flop would make no sense. SO ONE MORE TIME HE ONLY BEATS A BLUFF. No one raises here with 2 pair and expects to win if there called.

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You see that call with 2nd pair all the time at this level. Very possible, in fact likely, that he has trip 7's. No, let me repeat YOU SEE PLAYERS CALL A FLOP BET WITH 2ND PAIR ALL THE TIME IN NL25.

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You have 2.50 committed to this hand, and your going to risk 15.

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What does how much you have committed have to do with it? Buddy, that 2.50 is long gone. Has nothing to do with it anymore. Only relevant numbers are 15 for a shot at 25.

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Personally I can wait for a better situation especially since I know I’m a better player and eventually Ill get my opportunity to bust these fish. But since your clearly a pretty weak player yourself, you can just call off your 15 and hope he’s bluffing, because you won’t have to many more opportunities.

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OK lets get personal. That makes a lot of sense Tom, since you have seen me play so often. By the way, if you are an undergrad at Rutgers, how are you even old enough to play poker for money?

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This makes no sense. Your 1 to 3 to take down 1.50 pot, while risking $2.00 raise (that’s a fine play?), what if someone raises? Your force to surrender your $2.00 bet. Or you call and give him a read of your hand, and possible surrender odds to him (size of raise depending). Then the turn comes a brick and you have to fold.
Or what if someone calls? You have to assume a flush draw. There is only value in a raise on the flop if you lead on the river, or on the turn, because you can‘t bluff by checking (BELIEVE IT OR NOT) .

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If someone puts in a big raise I fold. But thats poker. Theres only value in a raise on the flop if you bet the turn and river? What if they all fold to you on the flop? Was there value then?

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Why would someone call with the 7 after the flop? Makes no sense. Even the weakest of calling stations would usually lay down this hand. And no calling station weak enough to play a 7 in this situation would understand the concept of an over bet on the river.

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They call with a 7 on the flop because they think you are bluffing.


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ACTUALLY A CALL IS A WEAK PLAY!!!! You only beat a trep 7’s or a bluff!!! (and I’ve already explained how trep 7’s are very unlikely) A fold here is the correct play. If you have a read and this guy bluffs from time to time, fine call it’ll be a slightly profitable play. But with no read calling a $15 raise here is a horrible play.

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Actually the check was a weak play. The fold was especially weak.

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Also I recommend you be a 2+2er for at least a month before you get fresh, and call the correct play "weak"

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Well, Tom, since you have been posting since June I guess you are right. I would point out that several veteran posters here agreed with me.

[TM1212]

Since I have already refuted almost all your arguments, and you have answer with your same pointless and incorrect statements, im not going to go through your whole post again just the really false parts.
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You see that call with 2nd pair all the time at this level. Very possible, in fact likely, that he has trip 7's. No, let me repeat YOU SEE PLAYERS CALL A FLOP BET WITH 2ND PAIR ALL THE TIME IN NL25.


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Fine I agree, it is somewhat feasible that a weak player could call with a 7. And he could over bet the river. But, it’s much more likely he had a flush draw, or was slow playing a set. For this reason you are going to be beat more often then you’ll win. There’s profit in a raise, because you could win it right there, but a call is definitely a big negative. And I also agree yes he could have 2 pair and improved to a boat on the RIVER!!!!!!
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Its very possible you are beaten. But to be so you have to assume your opponent is playing very weakly and very tight with two pair or hidden trips....or that he has a higher flush. The former I would not expect, the latter is just not likely enough to fold 15 for a shot at 25.

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Wow Don’t go out of your way to contradict your pervious statement. One second you call cause he’s a weak player, the next you lose the hand cause he’s a weak player. And I mentioned the 2.50 to show he is not pot committed that’s all. I didn’t put odds behind it or anything, but to correctly call here you need to win 60% of the time. Without a read, It is very difficult to argue that this call is at least even money.
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OK lets get personal. That makes a lot of sense Tom, since you have seen me play so often. By the way, if you are an undergrad at Rutgers, how are you even old enough to play poker for money?

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I was judging your play by how poorly you recommend playing this hand!
I was born Feb. 9th 1983. I am a Junior at Rutgers U. I am 21! Which is the legal age to gamble in any casino moron! I own a summer condo in AC, and played at the Borg, and Taj everyday last summer. I have played online since I was 17, and played poker since I was 15. Not that any of this information is your business!
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If someone puts in a big raise I fold. But thats poker. Theres only value in a raise on the flop if you bet the turn and river? What if they all fold to you on the flop? Was there value then?


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They didn’t all fold on the flop and at best your odds were 3to1 or worse for them to do so. With only 1.50 in the pot A bluff of $2.00 has little value with a 5 high flush draw.
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Well, Tom, since you have been posting since June I guess you are right. I would point out that several veteran posters here agreed with me


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I reviewed all the posts and 1 person agreed with you, schwza. While 3 agreed with me Piz, bk, and Ancient. You need to get your facts straight and stop fabricating the truth. Ive still been here 3 times as long as you (LOL) To me this topic is officially closed and you agree with me that folding was the only correct play with no read. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]