5-handed calling standards at the 55s

[dfscott]

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I love to play against people like this. They raise, I push any two from the BB, they fold. It's like a reverse blind steal.

The other fun ones are the SBs that complete when folded to them...

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Maybe its an ugly leak in my game, or maybe it works against all but 2+2'ers. Like I said, you might steal back from me once, but not again, and chances are I've already stolen more or close to the amount of chipse you just "stole back".

Its not like I min raised (begging for all in [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

Am I on crack people?

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I'm not saying I'm doing it over and over in a single SnG. I'm only making it for the duration of the bubble or bubble+1, which is usually only about 3-4 defense opportunities. If I do it one time, I get 4BB. On a straight steal, you only win 1.5BB. If you stole enough times to equal my re-steal, I need to be shot.

Edit: Here's another thing to think about. If I'm a loose (bad) player, your 3BB raise might make me consider calling with a marginal hand (KQ or something) and see a flop. You really don't want that. If I have to make a decision right there for all my chips and know there's no way you're folding (since you're all-in), I'm much less likely to do this.

[MentalCombat]

DF

Would you go so far as to say my 600 steal there is -EV? (against a random player?) Anyone else want to chime in?

If he does complete, and checks the flop, I'll put him all in there 100% of the time.

[dfscott]

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DF

Would you go so far as to say my 600 steal there is -EV? (against a random player?) Anyone else want to chime in?

If he does complete, and checks the flop, I'll put him all in there 100% of the time.

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Absolutely not. I think it can work, it just takes more work if he calls and then bets into you after the flop. I would prefer to exert maximum pressure pre-flop and put the decision to the BB.

OTOH, I definitely would not do it from the SB (unless I had a monster and wanted the all-in re-raise), since you wouldn't have post-flop position.

[citanul]

df:

i'm going to agree here with unarmed. there's probably chips to be made and ev to be made by simply pushing v. calling standards of your opponents, but i don't think that this is a spot where pushing is right. do you need this pot? are the chips a significant boost to you or hindrance to your opponents?

you're going to get called only when you're behind, and that's a lot of variance to add to your game in order to pick up a few chips.

meh, curtains is probably not going to like this analysis.

if you must raise, i'd raise less than all in [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

citanul

[J-Lo]

Basic ICM-- if you plan on folding to push. Assuming he pushes top 25% of hands.

fold 28.5%
raise and win blinds 30%
raisd and fold to push 25.5%

so 25% of the time you get 25.5% of pool, and 75% u get 30%=28.75. So you gain an ICM of .25% by raising and folding if he pushes.


I'm too lazy to do ICM for call... but i think it'd favor a call after raising to 600

[dfscott]

J-Lo is dead on here. Even if you want to fold to BB's re-raise all-in, you can't. So push first and take the additional FE.

[Moonsugar]

I am Skooma.

I remember this tourney well. You were playing so many pots when I had a playable hand I was not getting to play anything. I think I busted out 4 or 5.

I think this is a fold, but I play too tight with a big stack.

[durron597]

I would raise to 500 and fold to a push. Just don't do this too often [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Bigwig]

I'm raising to 400 or 500. SB pushes, I call. BB pushes, I fold.

I'm raising less than 3BB here with two kinds of hands: monsters and complete steals. Q8o vs. two players is a complete steal. However, the Q8 doesn't matter. I'm just as likely to steal here with 62o.

[Bigwig]

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Basic ICM-- if you plan on folding to push. Assuming he pushes top 25% of hands.

fold 28.5%
raise and win blinds 30%
raisd and fold to push 25.5%

so 25% of the time you get 25.5% of pool, and 75% u get 30%=28.75. So you gain an ICM of .25% by raising and folding if he pushes.


I'm too lazy to do ICM for call... but i think it'd favor a call after raising to 600

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What raise size did you use? 600? You shouldn't raise to 600 here--ever. 2BB, 2.5BB or pushing are the correct raises.