5-10 NL Hand at the Wynn

[Daliman]

Well, well, well, interesting thread, with more than a few interesting responses. I'm very surprised that the call ratio was so high, considering to me it's almost impossible to be versus more obvious AA or KK. I also personally think a reraise is ok, but should have been only another 200-250 more, so folding can be done more judiciously. Also, as I had planned, everyone assumed the QQ holder was me. It wasn't. I was the player in the BB, and I had AA, which of course, got cracked. It seemed ludicrous to me that QQ could call there, as I was positive that he HAD to have KK that he couldn't get away from. From the responses here, I guess alot of people once in the situation of getting almost 3-1 on a call allin with QQ will call once they get tht far, but most wouldn't get there that way. Personally, I'd have reraised original raiser to about 100-120, gotten reraised to 300 or so i'd say, then have a VERY hard decision from there. Once the flop came rags, him making a 2/3rds+ bet would NOT rule out a fold for me on the flop, but I'd be working pretty hard off a read.

[fsuplayer]

trust me, a reraise is not ok. stop trying to convince yourself.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
trust me, a reraise is not ok. stop trying to convince yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying the reraise under the original scenario is not ok, or under any circumstances is not OK with QQ? And I don't remember "trying to convince myself", as I'm not the one who made the reraise in the first place.

[gomberg]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying the reraise under the original scenario is not ok, or under any circumstances is not OK with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, it's a very marginal play to 3-bet w/ QQ given your stack-sizes w/out special circumstances (reads, game situation, etc.) This is far from an auto-reraise and cold calling queens is more of a deception / pot control play preflop - inducing mistakes later in the hand when they really can't make any more mistakes preflop.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying the reraise under the original scenario is not ok, or under any circumstances is not OK with QQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

In general, it's a very marginal play to 3-bet w/ QQ given your stack-sizes w/out special circumstances (reads, game situation, etc.) This is far from an auto-reraise and cold calling queens is more of a deception / pot control play preflop - inducing mistakes later in the hand when they really can't make any more mistakes preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough. I do think that just saying out-of-hand that QQ reraising is bad is incorrect, as in proper situations, it can save you alot of $$$. Course, it can cost you alot of $$$ at times too, but there are few perfect NL plays.

[piki]

I dont like the reraiase or the call by QQ. I think you played the AA hand perfectly and got sucked out.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
I dont like the reraiase or the call by QQ. I think you played the AA hand perfectly and got sucked out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, my only concern upon reflection is whether my initial raise was too small. Was wondering what might have happened if i'd offered him 10% of the pot once that flop hit too? Does that ever happen? Basically, I WANTED THAT DAMN POT!

Bah.

Simple fact is, he did exactly what I wanted him to, and it didn;t work out, so I live with the results. I get paid to make good decisions, not win pots.

Now to just convince myself of that...

[psuasskicker]

I'm very surprised that the call ratio was so high, considering to me it's almost impossible to be versus more obvious AA or KK.

Me too. I was shocked when I hit "submit" and there were more calls than folds. I can't imagine a more obvious AA or KK. He's either on AA "thinking about whether or not he wants to play the hand", or he's on KK legitimately thinking about whether he wants to take the chance he's against AA.

Unless you were making stupid massive bets with ridiculous hands, calling with QQ there is unambiguously terrible.

- C -

[SpaceAce]

Boy-oh-boy did that coldcall-reraise suck. So did the call when you went all-in. I think a lot of people in this thread are WAY overvaluing their "metagame" considerations. You're a 4:1 dog an easy 90% of the time in this situation; let the hand go and move on.

Tough break on your Aces.

SpaceAce

[chuddo]

im not saying the QQ guy did anything but play the hand terribly.

but if one is going to play badly enough to make that re-raise in the first place. then they are surely going to be bad enough to call the push.