Why will you never go pro?

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a pissing contest, you said you would have to play 30/60 to make more than you can potentially make in your current career, so I ask what you work as.

And buying a house isn't the be-all-and-end-all, you know. I can make a pretty good argument for renting your whole life and investing the money you save, and coming out ahead financially over the home buyer.

[/ QUOTE ]

I meant no offence with the pissing constest thing. To answer your question, I work in central government.

Incidently, I wouldn't buy your argument that renting + investing beats home buying, but I suspect the correct verdict differs country to country. An argument for another thread I think.

RH

[joop]

No offence taken, roundhouse.

Agreed, finding a 30/60 pro that can put in 60,000 hands a month every month of the year could prove difficult. But I think it could be done, they just choose not to do it because they would rather work a 20hr week and earn half the money - as it's still a lot of money. I know a 2/4 pro that plays 100k hands a month, how long he lasts remains to be seen, but if he can do it I can't see why 60k/month at 30/60 isn't doable.

Anyway, how much a 30/60 pro makes isn't the topic of this thread...

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[roundhouse]

[ QUOTE ]
No offence taken, roundhouse.

Agreed, finding a 30/60 pro that can put in 60,000 hands a month every month of the year could prove difficult. But I think it could be done, they just choose not to do it because they would rather work a 20hr week and earn half the money - as it's still a lot of money. I know a 2/4 pro that plays 100k hands a month, how long he lasts remains to be seen, but if he can do it I can't see why 60k/month at 30/60 isn't doable.

Anyway, how much a 30/60 pro makes isn't the topic of this thread...

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Feasible without burnout? For a handful of people I grant you. But I think the real killer trying to put in so many hands at that level is game selection. Your 2/4 player will always be able to find a soft game; someone at 30/60 or higher won't have the same luxury.

Agree that it's time to hand the thread back for it's original purpose. And as it's 2.15am here I've really got to go to bed now!

RH

[4thstreetpete]

[ QUOTE ]


I think you overestimate significantly. If I played 30/60 as a pro (assuming I were good enough) there is no way I could do 60k hands a month. Every month. Every year. Maintaining a 1BB/100 expectation. I suspect there are VERY few who can.

RH

[/ QUOTE ]

Maintaining 1BB/100 on 30/60 is not too difficult. However it takes a real special human being to play 60K hands a month every month for an extended period of time (assuming full ring).

[Brad22]

Every single pro complains that its stressful, not as easy as you think, will wear you out, and yes.....anything you do to an extreme will no longer be fun.

[TimM]

[ QUOTE ]
Looks good on paper. Now find the 30/60 pro who actually meets this 100%, 100% of the time.

Then find out who is giving him 50% match on his 401k, and pays 80% of his medical insurance costs, and pays him his full winnings a couple of weeks a year when he goes on vacation and doesn't play.
[img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's not make a red herring out of this. Cut those hand numbers and win rates in half and it's still more than salary plus benefits plus vacation for most people, even with a good career. At 5/10 and 32000 hands per month I am pretty much matching my job income. But I would not be doing this if it weren't for that potential to move up and do a lot better.

Of course I am making less now, since I was playing 20000 hands per month while I had the job, but now I have a lot more time and flexibility. Plus I hated my job, and I am single with no real responsibilities just yet, except to support myself. The OP's concerns are valid but certainly depend on the person and situation.

[Punker]

Its not an interesting job most of the time. I'm too tilt prone. Have to play the A game at all times. Makes taxes too complicated. Questionable future job/wage security (whether due to a fade in the boom, legal changes in the USA, or a widespread increase in opposition skill at upper limits).

[Master5hake]

Reason #1 : I am not good enough [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Reason #2 : It would be difficult for me to play enough (if I was good enough) to make enough money to save for retirement/nestegg - I think playing so many hands per month, if I had an exceptionally good first half of the month, I'd be way to tempted to cruise the rest of the month, instead of continuing to grind -
working for the 'man' forces this kind of disipline on you, even if you are coming out way ahead for a month with earnings vs. expenses, if you want to keep you job, you gotta keep going -

those reasons being given, I do admire the hell out of all the succesful pros out there, and even those that may not end up being successful but give it a go anyhow and then recovering after it doesn't work out - it takes balls, and that money earned would taste a little sweeter, and probably equip one with some better money management skills than the avg person who comes right out of college into a nice salaried job

[Josh W]

I truly think that a non-pro who has a job that pays all his bills can make more money PLAYING POKER than a pro of equal skill and responsibilities over a 2ish year period.

See, I have a non-poker career. And I have a decent bankroll. But I can continue to take shots in bigger and bigger games because if I accept a higher risk of ruin, it doesn't hurt as much.

If you start with a $5000 bankroll and I do too, you have to play like 3-6. At 3-6, you won't be making a ton more than your living expenses. If it takes 75% of your hands in a month to pay bills, then you only get to add to your bankroll with 25% of your hands.

If I, having a career, only play 1/4 as much as you, but it all goes to bankroll, my bankroll will grow just as fast. And, oh yeah, I don't have to stick to a 1000BB bankroll. I could play a game with a 200BB bankroll. In this case, I could play 10-20 or 15-30. Now, if my winrate at these 'tougher' games is only half what it is at 3-6, I'm still going to be making more money PLAYING 1/4 AS MUCH.

If you go pro playing 3-6, how long will it be before you can play 100-200? Quite a while...years. If you have a job and instead start out at 10-20, you could be playing 100-200 much much sooner.

I've argued for a while that a lot of people can/should go pro, just not yet. Build a nice fat bankroll. Your earnrate isn't linear, it's exponential. Build the roll, play games that will do much much more than just 'pay the bills', and enjoy life a whole lot more.

That's a long ramble. I hope it makes sense.

Josh

[John Bedtelyon]

Why do you have to play so many hands online to be a pro? What happened to the pro that "grinds" it out in a B&M five or six days a week as long as they need?

Online poker is not the only poker there is.