#11
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
I think you're on the right track.
PF I hate this situation. Conventional wisdom says to 3-bet any hand you're going to play, but with KQs against a tight raiser you could easily be dominated by UTG and I'd almost rather invite BB to the party by calling. Folding feels kinda dirty. I don't have a problem with the flop or turn; though I'd probably rather just lead the flop and go from there. If he raises for a free card that's fine by me - that only means we're getting more $ in with the best hand on the flop, BB will get trapped for 2 bets, and you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? |
#12
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? [/ QUOTE ] Actually the flush draw would make me consider check/calling the turn instead if the preflop raiser raised the flop. I would hate to bet the turn and get raised and have to call knowing that I'm behind. And a free card wouldn't be terrible. |
#13
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? [/ QUOTE ] i would guess it would depend on what fell, but most likely i would have c/r at that point. or check/call, (river card dependent) bet/call...something like that. Leading the flop: probably a good idea based on deception's thinking that he'd raise me w/o reads, giving me more options later in the hand, plus BB would have probably called my initial bet anyways. |
#14
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? [/ QUOTE ] Actually the flush draw would make me consider check/calling the turn instead if the preflop raiser raised the flop. I would hate to bet the turn and get raised and have to call knowing that I'm behind. And a free card wouldn't be terrible. [/ QUOTE ] see i thought the exact opposite. i wouldn't care if it got raised as i have increased outs to beat it. i would, however, hate to have it raised w/o the additional outs knowing i'm behind with fewer ways to improve. |
#15
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? [/ QUOTE ] Actually the flush draw would make me consider check/calling the turn instead if the preflop raiser raised the flop. I would hate to bet the turn and get raised and have to call knowing that I'm behind. And a free card wouldn't be terrible. [/ QUOTE ] Well, that's what I was saying. If I get raised on the flop I'm check/calling the turn regardless of the turn card. If he bets I'll call with outs and BB's dead $, if he checks that's cool too, I'll value-bet the river. |
#16
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
I don't think I'd reraise the UTG raiser OOP either, I'm interested to see what the others say.
Thinking on the rest of it seems pretty good. Interesting hand. |
#17
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
see i thought the exact opposite. i wouldn't care if it got raised as i have increased outs to beat it. i would, however, hate to have it raised w/o the additional outs knowing i'm behind with fewer ways to improve. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the same thing. And if the turn was not a diamond I would bet it. Thing is, we might be ahead or behind now. If we hit the flush we've got a monster unexpected hand and we'd prefer to get our money in then. We also may induce a bet from a weaker hand. But I'd rather go to war on the river with the unlikely backdoor flush when I am confident I'm ahead of AA/AK/KK. |
#18
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] you probably weren't going to bet the turn anyway if you didn't pick up your flush draw, right? [/ QUOTE ] Actually the flush draw would make me consider check/calling the turn instead if the preflop raiser raised the flop. I would hate to bet the turn and get raised and have to call knowing that I'm behind. And a free card wouldn't be terrible. [/ QUOTE ] see i thought the exact opposite. i wouldn't care if it got raised as i have increased outs to beat it. i would, however, hate to have it raised w/o the additional outs knowing i'm behind with fewer ways to improve. [/ QUOTE ] Try to get out of this line of thinking. In general you want to bet/raise without outs and check/call with outs on the turn. Of course there are exceptions. In this particular case I don't mind the turn bet because BB appears to be donating, and you'd hate to see this get checked thru with the best hand after only 1 bet went in on the flop. Edit: Lets say you open raise the button and you're HU in position with A5 against a blind. He checks you bet he calls a T9x flop. I am more inclined to fire again on this turn when I have A5 than if I had AK. It's more likely you have 6 clean outs with AK, you can fold to a C/R easier w/ A5 and plus AK has slightly more showdown value if he decides to bluff the river. |
#19
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] see i thought the exact opposite. i wouldn't care if it got raised as i have increased outs to beat it. i would, however, hate to have it raised w/o the additional outs knowing i'm behind with fewer ways to improve. [/ QUOTE ] I used to think the same thing. And if the turn was not a diamond I would bet it. Thing is, we might be ahead or behind now. If we hit the flush we've got a monster unexpected hand and we'd prefer to get our money in then. We also may induce a bet from a weaker hand. But I'd rather go to war on the river with the unlikely backdoor flush when I am confident I'm ahead of AA/AK/KK. [/ QUOTE ] ...that's true. i probably wouldn't get paid for my flush by playing the way i did. so what would you do if you donkbet the turn non-[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and are raised? call and fold the river UI? i guess it would be hard for me to fold TPGK if i'm raised on the turn. ...but i guess rare is the person raising with a hand that doesn't beat the K on the flop unless he views me as a bluffer (obviously not this hand). i'll have to think about that one. okay, what about this question: what if you didn't have the flush draw, say K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]- would you rather donkbet w/o the flush draw on a board that looks like a flush draw? probably too many questions [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] but that's how i think [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] |
#20
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Re: first 6-max hand: KQs in SB
[ QUOTE ]
In this particular case I don't mind the turn bet because BB appears to be donating, and you'd hate to see this get checked thru with the best hand after only 1 bet went in on the flop. [/ QUOTE ] this was more my reason for it: i didn't want it getting checked through. |
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