i can see his cards

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question for those that think this is so wrong.

Suppose you had a 'tell' on someone that was 100% accurate.

Would you let them know about it? Or would you continue to use it against them to their detriment.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is a different scenario. Your hole cards are intended to be confidential information, whereas a tell is not. If the player accidentally exposing his hole cards has acted in good faith attempting to conceal them, then you have an ethical dilemma as to what to do. The tell does not create this dilemma, since there is no conflict of moral principles when you observe someone's tell.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question for those that think this is so wrong.

Suppose you had a 'tell' on someone that was 100% accurate.

Would you let them know about it? Or would you continue to use it against them to their detriment.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice try, but different ballgame. Tells come from either our skill or their lack of skill. Trying to see a players hand may be a skill, but it is not a pokerskill. Same with hiding your hand - Skill, yes, poker skill, no.

What skills do you want to use to beat your opponent?

I'm tall, 6'3". I play basketball. Sometimes in pick-up games I am up against a 5'9" guy. When this is the case, I turn to my soft forward skills, and forget my center skills. Why? Because I don't want to use my center skills to pick on some short guy. It is cheap and dishonorable. True, the dishonor of using certain basketball skills to beat a basketball player is very different from peaking at another players hand in cards, but maybe you can start to see how honor works?

CSC

[adanthar]

I would move in solely because I'd feel better about it since that would have been my default move if I didn't see his hand [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a question for those that think this is so wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

The major source of wrongness/unfairness here is that the information that you are getting is not information that is available to everybody. I may be wrong, but I think for this reason it's also against the rules in many situations to show your hand to one other specific player; if you show one person, you're supposed to show them all.

By contrast, the information that you use to puzzle out tells is information that is freely available to everybody. Not everybody will necessarily be able to interpret it successfully, but it's there for them to try.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Is that how cheap your integrity is?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

(sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet)

[ QUOTE ]
You have an ethical obligation to yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

it must be nice to have this handy slice of logic to justify all sorts of behavior in your life

[Argus]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is that how cheap your integrity is?

[/ QUOTE ]

yes.

(sarcasm doesn't translate well on the internet)

[/ QUOTE ]
It's not sarcasm exactly. I'm trying to point out that you sound a bit silly making that same comment to someone then identifying yourself as doing the same thing under higher stakes circumstances.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You have an ethical obligation to yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

it must be nice to have this handy slice of logic to justify all sorts of behavior in your life

[/ QUOTE ]
It must be nice in yours too, unless you've given everything to helping others. Self-interested behaviour is ethically supported unless there is another conflicting moral principle.

[dark_horse]

If he keeps flashing his cards and I can see them I'll continue to look until he corrects the problem and I'll continue to use the advantage without saying a word. I don't think it's immoral. He needs to protect his hand.

[LethalRose]

yea, I dont have any sympathy for ignorant people. If anything I tell him after the tournament I could occassionaly see 1 of his cards. but thats ify..

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
If he keeps flashing his cards and I can see them I'll continue to look until he corrects the problem and I'll continue to use the advantage without saying a word. I don't think it's immoral. He needs to protect his hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, what is immoral is that you are the only person in a position to use this advantage. That's what is bad about it. (EDIT: To make it more clear, the problem isn't so much that he suffers for his mistake, but that only you, and not everybody else, gain from this scenario.)

I think Gavin has the right idea. Tell him he needs to protect his cards, but if he screws up and you see them, you obviously can't pretend like you didn't.

[GoldenHorde]

For me it comes down to the person, if they are obviously inexperienced and just learning the game or if it is an older person with a vision impairment, I will tell them every time. If the person is drunk, should know better, or just an ass I will ruthlessly use it to my advantage.

All that being said call and see a flop assuming stacks are fairly deep you have a great chance to make alot more money of this hand.