|
|
#11
08-09-2005, 10:58 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
If you will only get called by middle pairs, your hand is pretty much only worth it's folding equity. Although a big stack may look you up with AT in a spot like this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I don't mind overcards calling as I'm only a 60-40 dog as long as they are not hearts. If I get called by overcards I am betting 1970 to win 2970 which is 1.5-1, which is 60/40. So if you throw in some fold equity and its good. The bad part of this is getting called by 66-99, then it hurts. With 10BB's I'm likely to push. Regards, Woodguy 
|
|
#13
08-09-2005, 01:01 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
I think normally I check and see a flop here... However, I think your table image is a big consideration here. Being new to the table is definitely an advantage. I'm assuming you haven't really done anything yet. I think you get looked up by 66-TT fairly often here though... Raise to 1000 is the worst of the 3 options IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed on all points. Too often you'll be called with hands that have you in rough shape. Just check and see the flop. Maybe you'll get lucky and flop 2-pair, trips, a straight or an OESD, a flush or a flush draw, or some combination of pair & draw. With a big pot building, you might then be in a situation to push or call all-in with a big hand or a big draw and win an even bigger pot.
|
|
#14
08-09-2005, 01:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
Don't raise to 1000 as you will definitely be called by someone. I like the push but never have the balls to do it. Push the 75s and show it when you do, it'll set up getting paid off in the future when you do the same thing with a premium hand later.
|
|
#15
08-09-2005, 01:38 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I think normally I check and see a flop here... However, I think your table image is a big consideration here. Being new to the table is definitely an advantage. I'm assuming you haven't really done anything yet. I think you get looked up by 66-TT fairly often here though... Raise to 1000 is the worst of the 3 options IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed on all points. Too often you'll be called with hands that have you in rough shape. Just check and see the flop. Maybe you'll get lucky and flop 2-pair, trips, a straight or an OESD, a flush or a flush draw, or some combination of pair & draw. With a big pot building, you might then be in a situation to push or call all-in with a big hand or a big draw and win an even bigger pot. [/ QUOTE ] If you flopped an OESD or flush draw and got it all in against top pair, you'd be in the same shape if not worse than if you got it all in against 2 overcards right now. Are my EV calculations correct that you would need to take it down 1 out of 6 or 7 times to make this a +EV situation? If someone showed you 2 overcards and said they would call, you could almost justify a push here just because of all the money in the pot. I think you take it down at least 40-50% of the time here, which makes this way +EV. The fact that with 2000 chips you can't really steal blinds but with 3000 chips you can easily do it makes this situation even more +EV because of future gains from taking this pot down. If you are going to put your skill to good use you need the chips to do it, this is a great opportunity to get them.
|
|
#16
08-09-2005, 01:40 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
If you play this you have to push all in to put max pressure on your opponents to fold mariginal hands.
If you are called, you have eliminated your positional disadvantage by pushing preflop.
|
|
#17
08-09-2005, 02:06 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If you will only get called by middle pairs, your hand is pretty much only worth it's folding equity. Although a big stack may look you up with AT in a spot like this. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. I don't mind overcards calling as I'm only a 60-40 dog as long as they are not hearts. If I get called by overcards I am betting 1970 to win 2970 which is 1.5-1, which is 60/40. So if you throw in some fold equity and its good. The bad part of this is getting called by 66-99, then it hurts. With 10BB's I'm likely to push. Regards, Woodguy [/ QUOTE ] This is the best advice on this hand. You get called and you will be a dog, but you have enough equity to outweigh the chance of being dominated to make this a push. Good analysis Woodguy. Brad
|
|
#18
08-09-2005, 02:17 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't raise to 1000 as you will definitely be called by someone. I like the push but never have the balls to do it. Push the 75s and show it when you do, it'll set up getting paid off in the future when you do the same thing with a premium hand later. [/ QUOTE ] At this stage, I think maintaining max F.E. equity is much more important than getting paid on good hands. Early on I like to get a loose idiot image (usually by doing things like pushing into a smallish pot, when I know a small bet will win), So I can double if I get AA-KK, but at this stage, winning pots uncontested is a higher priority
|
|
#19
08-09-2005, 02:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think normally I check and see a flop here... However, I think your table image is a big consideration here. Being new to the table is definitely an advantage. I'm assuming you haven't really done anything yet. I think you get looked up by 66-TT fairly often here though... Raise to 1000 is the worst of the 3 options IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed on all points. Too often you'll be called with hands that have you in rough shape. Just check and see the flop. Maybe you'll get lucky and flop 2-pair, trips, a straight or an OESD, a flush or a flush draw, or some combination of pair & draw. With a big pot building, you might then be in a situation to push or call all-in with a big hand or a big draw and win an even bigger pot. [/ QUOTE ] If you flopped an OESD or flush draw and got it all in against top pair, you'd be in the same shape if not worse than if you got it all in against 2 overcards right now. Are my EV calculations correct that you would need to take it down 1 out of 6 or 7 times to make this a +EV situation? If someone showed you 2 overcards and said they would call, you could almost justify a push here just because of all the money in the pot. I think you take it down at least 40-50% of the time here, which makes this way +EV. The fact that with 2000 chips you can't really steal blinds but with 3000 chips you can easily do it makes this situation even more +EV because of future gains from taking this pot down. If you are going to put your skill to good use you need the chips to do it, this is a great opportunity to get them. [/ QUOTE ] Notice I said "you might then be in a situation" - For example let's say you just check and the flop comes 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - giving you middle pair with a flush draw and some runner-runner straight possibilities. Let's say that the first limper has AA and wanted to Limp Re-Raise but never had the opportunity - so now he pushes. Another limper has AQ and figures that his hand may be good - so he calls all-in. It gets back around to you - with your 14 outs getting well over 2:1 on your call - now that's what I'm talking about!!!
|
|
#20
08-09-2005, 02:53 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Punish the Limpers? Party $109 hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I think normally I check and see a flop here... However, I think your table image is a big consideration here. Being new to the table is definitely an advantage. I'm assuming you haven't really done anything yet. I think you get looked up by 66-TT fairly often here though... Raise to 1000 is the worst of the 3 options IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Agreed on all points. Too often you'll be called with hands that have you in rough shape. Just check and see the flop. Maybe you'll get lucky and flop 2-pair, trips, a straight or an OESD, a flush or a flush draw, or some combination of pair & draw. With a big pot building, you might then be in a situation to push or call all-in with a big hand or a big draw and win an even bigger pot. [/ QUOTE ] If you flopped an OESD or flush draw and got it all in against top pair, you'd be in the same shape if not worse than if you got it all in against 2 overcards right now. Are my EV calculations correct that you would need to take it down 1 out of 6 or 7 times to make this a +EV situation? If someone showed you 2 overcards and said they would call, you could almost justify a push here just because of all the money in the pot. I think you take it down at least 40-50% of the time here, which makes this way +EV. The fact that with 2000 chips you can't really steal blinds but with 3000 chips you can easily do it makes this situation even more +EV because of future gains from taking this pot down. If you are going to put your skill to good use you need the chips to do it, this is a great opportunity to get them. [/ QUOTE ] Notice I said "you might then be in a situation" - For example let's say you just check and the flop comes 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - giving you middle pair with a flush draw and some runner-runner straight possibilities. Let's say that the first limper has AA and wanted to Limp Re-Raise but never had the opportunity - so now he pushes. Another limper has AQ and figures that his hand may be good - so he calls all-in. It gets back around to you - with your 14 outs getting well over 2:1 on your call - now that's what I'm talking about!!! [/ QUOTE ] And the chance of something even remotely similar to this happening???
|
 |
|
|
Linear Mode
