AA no reads

[wyrd]

I want to cry because this is a hard decision. Flush draw, straight draw, two pair, set, A9 for top pair with top kicker. Could also have TT, JJ, QQ, KK. *sigh*

I push. I've folded AA and KK each once when someone flat called, then the turn completed a possible straight AND flush (in this case a Ts would be horrible - something like that). But since we're on the flop, I'm pushing and hope he donked it and went all-in on a draw.

Also I've been in this particular situation as well, and it ended up villain was actually all-in with two overcards and a flush draw. So this is also very very likely (something like QKs).

[4_2_it]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, so I would probably not fold this cuz I never fold aces

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you. I cannot bring myself to lay them down on this dry of a board. I agree that OP should fold, but I know that I cannot fold in this situation.

[tripp0807]

Insta call and see flush draw and/or JT. You're going without a read here, which means you default to a "standard play read" on 25NL. People with a PP miniraise at this level.

You get stacked, you get stacked. A set probably would have just flat called - slowplaying sets is another default at this level.

[Peter Olley]

Odds are too good to do otherwise.Especially in a cash game. The worst that happens is you reload.There are only 2 out of the many possibilities with this flop that have you in trouble, that is not enough to fold on.

KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

[ QUOTE ]
KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

[/ QUOTE ]
Makes great sense, but I would agree with the others and say I would still probably call, especially in the 30 seconds or so you have to act.

[leehrat]

i see TONS of clowns at this level go all in just with top pair. i would call 100% of the time

My 30 second logic for a $25 NL game.

Any raise of a pre-flop raise and continuation bet is saying "I can beat TPTK". Since he didn't open the betting, there's no KK, QQ, JJ.

Leaving TT, 2 pair, or sets.

I fold.

[Finite_Risk]

I dont disagree, but at this level I have seen this move more because people think on this flop you just missed with overs and can blow you off your hand with a big CR

[Godfather80]

[ QUOTE ]
KK,QQ,JJ are not an option, due to Villian's preflop behaviour.

TT is not an option, because Villian saw OP raise preflop and continuation bet into a large field, meaning there is a very good chance that TT will not stand up. The average $25NL player is under-aggressive, not over-aggressive.

The average $25NL player is there for a reason. Their postflop play is not very good. You'll see tons of guys call allin's on the flop with a flush or straight draw, but not make the allin.

Personally, I think the guys that have posted so far have given the standard $25NL player too much credit. They tend to be overly loose, yes. But they also tend to be overly passive. To check raise allin with a flush or straight draw shows A) an understanding of the real odds of making his draw and B) fold equity. This is a level of play your standard $25 NL player simply does not have.

So your average $25 player is a passive one, meaning he's only going to be playing like this with a made hand. (Sets, 98s) The only draw the average passive $25 player would consider this play on is J10[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and 67[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], in which case you're not looking good either way.

I fold.

Opinions on this logic? (agree or disagree?)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an excellent post. 25NL players are generally very passive, at least in my experience. This only emphasizes why reads are so important. Without reads, I probably fold as well. 25NL players are most often true blue post-flop.