Before you post that hand, READ THIS

[btspider]

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I really think we need to sticky this or something like it. With all the new topics going up this thing is eventually going to get buried over time (how about that for irony).

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and i was harped on when my first revision of the sticky post contained some strong language about not posting new topics so much [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

we can just mass bump this sucker or do a v1.1 of the sticky perhaps. i'm not sure 2p2 would want too strong a recommendation for posting guidelines though.

[KingOtter]

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I agree completely. I've learned so much more by posting my thoughts on threads and getting told why I'm wrong. The key word there is ***WHY*** I'm wrong. Just being told that you're wrong and here's the right thing doesn't help anyone. But the people who know what they're talking about are willing to take the time to EXPLAIN why what they feel is correct. And that's how you learn.

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Yeah, what he said. I agree whole-heartedly. The threads I've learned the most are the threads where I posted a response and either got trounced upon, or agreed with by people I respect.

KO

[Buckmulligan]

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Your absolutely right about that. And I must admit that I commit this sin myself. But when I first realized (a while ago) that more threads are paradoxically worse for the forum and me personally, I started to change my advice. Now instead of telling people, "Post more hands." I try to tell people "Reply to threads more often."

I suggest that everyone else do the same, or something along those lines.

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Now we are in the same page; Spider just complained to me about one of my posts and had a valid point as well, as I became one of my pet peeves. Instead of posting a hand and explaining my thoughts throughout the hand for criticism, I just threw the hand down and said: WTF shouldyou F'in do here?

If new players post hand threads, they won't get anything out of them unless they have their thoughts addressed, not just their play; After all, in a limit game you will never have more than 4 options (check/bet/call/fold) and usually don't have more than two. Good and bad players make the right decision fairly often in limit holdem simply because quite often there aren't enough ways that they can make mistakes. So I say post thoughts on other people's threads, or post thoughts on your own thread, but if they are on your own thread, make them comprehensive.

[Aaron W.]

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I really think we need to sticky this or something like it. With all the new topics going up this thing is eventually going to get buried over time (how about that for irony).

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I don't think we need a second sticky. Putting this statement in the next update of the FAQ/guidelines would be good enough.

(By posting this, I also get an auto-*bump* to keep this towards the top.)

[LoaferGee12]

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or do a v1.1 of the sticky perhaps. i'm not sure 2p2 would want too strong a recommendation for posting guidelines though.

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v1.1 sounds good (just assuming it's a normal sticky?) .
Who is 2p2.

[btspider]

actually, maybe its just me, but has the number of PT stat posts gone down since the sticky went up?

of course, the week or so before it went up, there was a mass of stat posts with ridiculously small sample sizes.

2p2 = twoplustwo.. the operators of this site.. they make the rules and have to approve of the contents of the sticky. it took ahile to get what is there approved, so v1.1 should have some worthwhile changes.. otherwise its not worth it.

[Isura]

Good post, and I agree completely. I confess that I posted a rather routine hand today with no reads, but I've posted like 4 hands this week, and responded to over 100 so I guess I'm off the hook this time.

Another point is the effect of the hand converter. The hand converter is a convienient tool, but many times a poster will just paste the hand into the post and not think about it first. I find it helpful when the OP adds a running commentary between streets, as this shows he is really thinking about the hand and attempting to recreate the situation for the readers. I'm going to try to do this more often in my posts too.

[detruncate]

Everyone likes to hearken back to the good old days, but the problem has more to do with numbers than anything else. Posting multiple threads used to be very common. Now it's rare to see more than a couple. And yet the traffic keeps going up.

I read every post in every Micro thread for my first 3-4 months. I can't imagine doing so now. There's just too much to keep up with. But I can remember thinking things like, "how many posts about pocket jacks do we need" even then.

I can do without the stats posts, but they're easy to ignore. Same with the off topic/nc/general question/bonus whoring stuff.

It comes down to simple common sense:

New posters should feel free to ask questions, but are encouraged to make an effort to find answers via search/lurking.

People who have been around for a little while should start to help out the newbies with the basics as soon as possible instead of relying on established posters to do so. Things like pot odds/equity, how-to basics, bankroll stuff... the things you learn in your first few weeks around here. Give back, and start early.

Everyone should make an effort to do their own legwork. Posting a thread should be the last resort. There's a whole archive of info out there, and the much maligned search function works well enough if you use a little smarts -- you can also use google (site:twoplustwo.com [insert search string here])as more than one person has pointed out. Searching the internet is a skill most people should have at least a passing familiarity with these days, so "I couldn't find it" is usually a sign of giving up too easily. Don't be lazy. Poker is a meritocracy. You get out of it what you put into it.

It's not about getting answers, it's about the process of exploring questions. Improving the way you think about the game is immeasurably more valuable than collecting cookie-cutter solutions.

It's your forum, and will be exactly what you make it. Act accordingly.

[GrunchCan]

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I'm considering turning over my stewardship of the micros to you. If you're in need of a good monkey avatar, I have one around somewhere. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Dude, I'd be honored to be the micros steward. Only trouble is, I still suck at poker.

[shadow29]

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I'm considering turning over my stewardship of the micros to you. If you're in need of a good monkey avatar, I have one around somewhere. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Dude, I'd be honored to be the micros steward. Only trouble is, I still suck at poker.

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Aye. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

I took a much needed vacation from micros recently (and frankly, it shows). It's just that the quality of posts has gone down. "No reads" has become common.

I think some of the veterans (myself definetly included) have reacted to this by just saying "fold pf" [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] or "raise the turn". I think the forum would be better if we started explaining why. And granted, this will come with less new threads, etc.

John