Defending your BB in Limit

[Daniture]

Thats some seriously flawed logic to try and claim you're getting 4.5:1 heads up against a later position raiser.

While i agree in theory the odds are pretty much right to defend with any 2 cards even if you think your opponent has AK it all depends on how much faith you have in your ability to outplay you're opponent out of position.

Personally i'll wait for a better spot then 47o to defend.

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From the article:

[ QUOTE ]
...when I’m in the big blind, I’m showing an overall loss of less than one big blind with 140 of my 169 hand combinations — meaning that as of now, I do better by calling with those 140 combinations than I would by folding them. To me, this is a pretty strong indicator that all of the people who advocate a loose blind-defending strategy are on the right track.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't clear to me. Is he referring only to hands when his BB is raised? Otherwise, this doesn't seem like a good argument at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see what is unclear. The topic is defending the bb. Doesn't this imply that someone put in a raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps it is implied. But I'd prefer he had given more specifics and stated the conditions explicitly. Since Matros has a math background maybe I should just take his claim at face value-- I'd just rather not.

[MicroBob]

"when I’m in the big blind, I’m showing an overall loss of less than one big blind with 140 of my 169 hand combinations"


it very much looks to me that he is looking at his success rate with ANY hands in the big-blind (whether it was raised or not) and then is deciding that he should be defending with all of these hands because the win-rate with them In the BB (period) is somehow favorable for defending.


I haven't read the article...but this logic is REALLY messed-up.


the other way (and I believe incorrect) to look at it is that he actually defended his BB to a raise with all 169 combinations of hands...and believed he did the right thing with 140 of those.
Not only would this be idiotic...but I don't believe it was what he was saying anyway.


He was simply looking at his loss-rate of certain hands IN the BB (even if he saw a free-flop) and THEN came to the conclusion that obviously he should be defending against raises with these hands too.


Based on my interpretation of this along I don't think it's going to be worth my time reading this article.

If a respected poster comes on and says it actually is worth reading then I'll change my mind.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
"when I’m in the big blind, I’m showing an overall loss of less than one big blind with 140 of my 169 hand combinations"

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not a respected poster, but smart enough to notice that this sentence is pure crap. Take 72o as example. Let's say I decide to fold it 99% of the time, but against that weak-tight button who attempts to steal blinds with 80% of his hands and then play weak-tight postflop, I 3-bet it preflop and it is a +EV-play. Guess what, I am losing less than 1BB on average on than hand from BB [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img].

EDIT: It is even stupider. If I click check/fold on every hand from the BB and almost always check/fold postflop, I will end up losing less than 1BB on average since sometimes it will be folded around and sometimes I will flop a monster.

[jacksup]

[ QUOTE ]
From the article:

[ QUOTE ]
...when I’m in the big blind, I’m showing an overall loss of less than one big blind with 140 of my 169 hand combinations — meaning that as of now, I do better by calling with those 140 combinations than I would by folding them. To me, this is a pretty strong indicator that all of the people who advocate a loose blind-defending strategy are on the right track.

[/ QUOTE ]

This isn't clear to me. Is he referring only to hands when his BB is raised? Otherwise, this doesn't seem like a good argument at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Those are my overall numbers for the big blind. My point was just that since I seem to be doing well from the big blind, and that loose defending is a big part of my big blind strategy, I think people who advocate loose defending are thinking along the correct lines.

Incidentally, I show a loss of more than one big blind with even fewer hands when I voluntarily put money in the pot from the big blind.

Matt

[uuDevil]

[ QUOTE ]
Those are my overall numbers for the big blind. My point was just that since I seem to be doing well from the big blind, and that loose defending is a big part of my big blind strategy, I think people who advocate loose defending are thinking along the correct lines.

Incidentally, I show a loss of more than one big blind with even fewer hands when I voluntarily put money in the pot from the big blind.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Matt,

Thanks for the clarification.

I liked the article and would certainly like to believe you're right as it would help explain my own poor results in the blinds. I just would have liked to have seen you quantify your results in more detail.

I realize that this might require you to disclose information you don't necessarily want to give away, but maybe at some point you can do a further analysis. If CardPlayer isn't the right audience, there's a magazine at this site that may be interested. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[imported_stealthcow]

curious...

what are your fold bb to steal and what limit are you playing?

stealthcow-

[jman220]

The definitive thread on blind defense.

[Net Warrior]

[ QUOTE ]
The definitive thread on blind defense.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL Tongue firmly in cheek I trust. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]