Overpair vs mucho turn AG. - Page 2

#1 12-14-2005, 11:37 PM

I play it the same.
I want to fold the river but I'm not good enough.

I think next time, chop the action at the turn c/r.

#2 12-14-2005, 11:55 PM

I think I play this the same way.

You have to 3-bet the turn here, maybe villain flopped a set but I'm not ready to give him credit just yet. The river card kinda sucks but surely villain isn't getting that excited over an FD on the turn. Minus a read I think I just call the river, though part of me wants to raise.

Maybe villain showed JT or a PP that connected with the flop??

NH.

Mathieu · #3 12-14-2005, 11:59 PM

Given that you don't have a read I don't think you can fold the turn cap, you've made the pot big and you are getting 10-1 to see the river and 5.5-1 on a call down.

A more conservative line would be to just call the raise since we can't fold to a cap. I just think we miss too much value by doing this. I think villain can have many hands that you beat here and he will pay you off with most Qs. I have ran into some aggro opponents lately so I may be a little off.

Edit: Even with a read we have to call the turn since we have odds to improve to beat 2 pairs.

Mathieu · #4 12-15-2005, 12:38 AM

After more thinking, I like the more conservative line of just calling down after the turn check raise. I guess I tend to assess unknowns as more aggressive then what they really are.

I feel the check raise represents more strength than just a raise as villain might have donked had he improved to top pair, so I like just calling down the check raise.

I would be more inclined to 3 bet if I was OOP, because then villain's raise looks more like a paired Q.

Is my reasoning correct?

Chris Daddy Cool · #5 12-15-2005, 12:06 AM

against unsophsticated players i will just call down after being checkraised. i don't think they would call you a pansy if you did. i don't think 3betting is bad though, or even -EV. its just when you get 4bet you want to cry.

#6 12-15-2005, 01:17 AM

I had a very similar hand yesterday. I played it the same way as you but I really hated being capped on the turn. Villains hand at showdown shocked me as well.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (5 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Turn: (3.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB raises, Hero 3-bets, SB caps, Hero calls.

River: (11.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB

Results in white below: 
SB has Kh Kd (full house, kings full of fives).
Hero has Ac Ah (two pair, aces and fives).
Outcome: SB wins 13.50 BB.

J. Stew · #7 12-15-2005, 01:25 AM

I just call the 3bet against unknown, call the river and expect to lose to a crappy two pair before I lose to a flush or straight.

#8 12-15-2005, 01:26 PM

Grunch

Based on that action I'd expect to see two pair or a set. My limited experience has been that some players like to wait for the big bet before popping you with a c/r and a strong hand. I'd discout QQ or flush draw but think he maybe has Q9 or a set of 9's or 6's based on his preflop call. Without a read on the player, I would probably turn 3-bet it too, when he caps I go into c/c mode. It might be a spew, but I want to know what he played so I can take some notes.

ajm36 · #9 12-15-2005, 06:59 PM

Given the turn action, I expect to see a set at SD 90% of the time. I think your turn 3-bet is great! When he caps, you know you're way behind here. You could just call the c/r, but I think this is weak.