Somebody congratulate me!

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
You don't care about the numbers? You only care that you're playing to your potential?

I have trouble believing that. My Asperger's Syndrome must be kicking in again. I see your Tourette's Syndrome is back in action. (Incidentally, I thought 2+2 had a filter....)

[/ QUOTE ]

A) If we all cared less about our specific win-rate and more about playing well, our win-rate would be better off. Naturally it feels better to have a month where you run well over a large number of hands, and that's all bison was saying. Specific WR over specific hand sample doesn't matter much, and there's really no reason for you (or anyone else) to ask for it.

2) There is a filter, but when you become a Carpal Tunnel you can do whatever the fu[/i]ck you want.

[DataMiner]

[ QUOTE ]
A) If we all cared less about our specific win-rate and more about playing well, our win-rate would be better off.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. And if we all spent more hours playing and less in threads like this one, our win-rate would be better off. I guess we're all being silly.

[ QUOTE ]
Naturally it feels better to have a month where you run well over a large number of hands, and that's all bison was saying. (emphasis added)

[/ QUOTE ]

No, that's what _you_ are saying. Bison was being arrogant: "I'm having a great month, gorging on hands to beat Tosh and hopefully buy myself A) a laptop, B) a new HDTV or C) a month off, depending on how I feel when the new year rolls around."

[ QUOTE ]
Specific WR over specific hand sample doesn't matter much, and there's really no reason for you (or anyone else) to ask for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who are you to say which questions have reason to be asked and which ones do not? Bison (or anyone else) doesn't need to answer it and has every reason to reply in a rude a manner if he feels so inclined.

And I (or anyone else) can certainly ask.

[ QUOTE ]
2) There is a filter, but when you become a Carpal Tunnel you can do whatever the [censored] you want.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh...you're "old hand" and avoided the censor.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
Agreed. And if we all spent more hours playing and less in threads like this one, our win-rate would be better off. I guess we're all being silly.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not. I'm 4-tabling while writing this. I RULE.

[ QUOTE ]
No, that's what _you_ are saying. Bison was being arrogant: "I'm having a great month, gorging on hands to beat Tosh and hopefully buy myself A) a laptop, B) a new HDTV or C) a month off, depending on how I feel when the new year rolls around."

[/ QUOTE ]

I was speaking more about his reply post. Given that he and milo are friends, I wouldn't classify this so much as bragging as just conversing. Now if he'd started his own "Congratulate Me" post to brag about his great month, it'd be different.

[ QUOTE ]
Who are you to say which questions have reason to be asked and which ones do not? Bison (or anyone else) doesn't need to answer it and has every reason to reply in a rude a manner if he feels so inclined.

And I (or anyone else) can certainly ask.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst reasoning ever. I say "Hey, it's kind of pointless and not really cool to ask about specific winrate." You reply, "Who are you to tell me what to do? That's just, like, your opinion, man!"

Well, yeah. It's not like it's in the rules anywhere. It's still a stupid and kind of obnoxious question to ask right in the forum. It's like asking a chick's weight. Sure, some might not care, but if you're halfway intelligent you'll AT LEAST pull her to the side and ask quietly in private first. And even then, don't be surprised if she thinks you're an as[/i]s for asking.

Yes, bison, in this metaphor, you are a woman.

[ QUOTE ]
Eh...you're "old hand" and avoided the censor.

[/ QUOTE ]

That was part of the joke. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Anyway, no hard feelings or anything, I'm just one of the people who finds this question really obnoxious no matter how nicely it's asked. Bison replied much more nicely than I would have. Then again, I'm running bad, and no one asks about my winrate because I suck.

[Joe Tall]

Lucky for me I'm not planning on giving up my job, moving halfway across the country, and relying on poker to help pay some of the bills while I look for a job, huh?

Phew, I thought you were talking about me but I'm moving all the way accross the country.

Peace,
Joe Tall

[DataMiner]

[ QUOTE ]
Given that he and milo are friends, I wouldn't classify this so much as bragging as just conversing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's certainly a mitigating circumstance.

[ QUOTE ]
It's still a stupid and kind of obnoxious question to ask right in the forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm still not convinced that it's an inappropriate question. (Please don't try to convince me -- you've already stated that this type of question drives you batty.) Even so, Bison has more than enough ego to handle potentially taboo questions.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, no hard feelings or anything, I'm just one of the people who finds this question really obnoxious no matter how nicely it's asked.

[/ QUOTE ]

No hard feelings here, either. Remember, I have Asperger's. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[Tosh]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm having my worst run ever. -133BB and counting. Did I mention that I hate poker? Yeah, I know, wah, wah.

Lucky for me I'm not planning on giving up my job, moving halfway across the country, and relying on poker to help pay some of the bills while I look for a job, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

Milo, I am down 300BB in December, I mock you and your post.

[bisonbison]

Sigh.

Milo, who I like, is in the middle of a downswing and made a pity post. Milo is an adult, and a therapist, and a SS regular and knows exactly what happens when you make a pity post: you invite mockery.

So I mocked him. Milo doesn't need defending, and there's no way in hell I would post my win-rate publicly here, so f[/i]uck off. It is none of your business. This is not about me being arrogant. This is about me having a little fun at Milo's expense (which he knowingly invited upon himself), and you showing up out of nowhere and pretending like there was a need to know what "great" means. Please.

[Zetack]

I dunno that its a rude and obnoxious question. I mean these forums are all about numbers (oh, yeah strategy too, there's some of that too if I remember correctly) and numbers are being kicked around all the time. Including winrates.

Sure, nobody has to share anything. I don't think its expected that anybody necessarily will. But given that many people do, its certainly part of the public dialogue, and not rude like it would be in some other kind of context. IMHO anyway.

As far as Bison goes, I suspect many people are intensely interesed in his results. Why? Well he started at the micro's climbed quickly up the limits and now has what must be somwhere in the range of 150k (or possibly much more) at 3-6 alone. And he's clearly a damn good player. So it would be interesting and instructive to know what's possible for a player like that. One whose history, while still in the short term is much less short term than many of us.

Not to say that I think, or expect or anything else that this is public information that Bison ought to share with us. I personally wouldn't ask because I've gotten the impression in other posts (confirmed below: " there's no way in hell I would post my win-rate publicly here, so [censored] off. It is none of your business.") that this is something he doesn't want to share. That's cool.

But rude? C'mon, how many post a day are made on the various forums about winrates?

--Zetack

[bisonbison]

Zety,

I don't think it's a rude question, I just don't like DataMiner.

I get PMs all the time asking to share databases or Party names or my stats, but my non-response to all of them is basically: no.

Besides, I think it's stupid and hypocritical for me to share my stats while counseling everybody that your win-rate is really a pretty vague and unimportant thing.

There are people I've told, but they're people I've met and liked or corresponded with for a while, who I trust aren't interested in saying "bison is the 29th best SS poster" or whatever.

[uw_madtown]

[ QUOTE ]
There are people I've told, but they're people I've met and liked or corresponded with for a while, who I trust aren't interested in saying "bison is the 29th best SS poster" or whatever.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's kind of key. I see win-rate as kind of analogous to salary. If a total stranger, or someone I barely knew, asked me what I make in a year, I'd find that pretty obnoxious. That's just something I thought was part of our culture. It's entirely different if a friend casually asks "How much are you making, if you don't mind me asking?" because you don't have to volunteer it up if you don't want, and they probably don't care much.

As for win-rate being a valuable statistic to discuss, haven't the numerous posts by bison and several other posters shown everyone why win-rate isn't an especially valuable statistic to discuss? It takes a particularly large sample size to determine win-rate with any particular specificity, large enough that to make strategy changes based on that number alone is pretty stupid. There are many other statistics that converge to their "true" number much faster than win-rate, and that say much more about your game.

Based on the general thoughts of 2+2ers everywhere...

1BB/100 - good
2BB/100 - very good
2.5BB/100 - great
3BB/100 - excellent or superior (or unsustainable)

I'd guess bison is about a 2.2 or 2.3 in terms of skill, also considering that he multitables. But even then, he might be earning 3.5 or 1.5 over xLargex number of hands. So it's a relatively useless statistic compared to the many others you'd want to know.

I regularly toss mine out there in discussion, largely because I realize (and hope others do as well) how volitile the number can be, and how it often is more an indication of how well you're running than how well you're playing.




Which is part of the original point anyway -- milo's running bad. The cards will turn, he'll feel better, and this pity post will still be here to mock him for getting all wound up about winrate. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]