An Inescapable Conclusion about Some Religions

[IShark]

What the hell is this babble? Any thinking person knows God has been dead for about 125 years now. Leave it at that and stick to poker, Dave.

Sheessh....

[Zygote]

I'm sure you already know this, but most religious people won't even experience a drop of doubt after reading this essay. Their heads are far too polluted with a culture of faith. Regardless, i'm sure us atheists and agnostics appreciate the resounding expressions of clear thoughts. Keep the essay's coming.

[Little Fishy]

david I think you'd like this read and it would answer many of your questions. I've had heated discussions on the tpic and many of the references to the new testament are incomplete at best (ie the meaning of JC's teachings) I'll go into specifics if you want but I think the Idea of in group vs outgroup morality is very powerfull.

Love Thy Neighbor

[tek]

So religious zealots would have us believe that those who lived before religion will burn??

Just because religion was invented doesn't mean that one has to believe in anything.

Belief in a hypothetical supernatural being was not a prerequisite to being born, nor is it a condition of living nor of after-death disposition.

Belief in religion is fine, if you need it.

Postulating about religion is also fine when we have nothing else to do...

[tek]

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The man who embraces the uncertainty of his universe and explores it to the best of his ability is the one who makes his "existence" "meaningful", IMO.

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Maybe. But we can also say "who cares, I have things to do".

[img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Snoogins47]

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To believe that God is unhappy with those who don't believe in a specific religion that is supposedly the true one, it is necessary that those who do believe in it do not merely say that they hope they are right or have an unshakable feeling they are right. After all those who believe in other religions can say the same thing. If believers of religion A think that believers of religion B will be sent to hell by a just God, it is necessary that they believe that an OBJECTIVE examination of the evidence should lead you to believe that religion A is more likely to be accurate than all the other competing theories, plus those yet to be espoused, combined.

It is important to understand that it is only these religions and their strict practioners that I personally have a serious problem with.

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Though I have no clue if you will actually respond to this, or even if this is an appropriate thread to bring up this discussion, but what exactly are your thoughts on those with the "unshakable feeling" that their beliefs are the right one?

Clearly the origin of the "feeling" is what could easily throw it into question... (I had an unshakable feeling that Santa Claus existed for quite some time)

And on a loosely related note, what about other "feelings" along the same lines? The example that keeps coming to the forefront of my head is that silly "love" thing. The attraction that tends to defy logic, but is still the catalyst for a continued relationship between two humans because it "feels right," so to speak.

This question isn't just for David, though I think his thoughts on the matter would be interesting. I'd also like to qualify this post in saying I'm not making any claims about the validity of "having a feeling" being ample evidence to subscribe to any belief system, nor the contrary, and I'm not also saying that theological beliefs are merely a matter of emotions. I have my own thoughts on these issues, but the entire purpose of this post is inquisition, and I think this issue, no matter how poorly I word it, could spark some interesting discussion.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To believe that God is unhappy with those who don't believe in a specific religion that is supposedly the true one, it is necessary that those who do believe in it do not merely say that they hope they are right or have an unshakable feeling they are right. After all those who believe in other religions can say the same thing. If believers of religion A think that believers of religion B will be sent to hell by a just God, it is necessary that they believe that an OBJECTIVE examination of the evidence should lead you to believe that religion A is more likely to be accurate than all the other competing theories, plus those yet to be espoused, combined.

It is important to understand that it is only these religions and their strict practioners that I personally have a serious problem with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though I have no clue if you will actually respond to this, or even if this is an appropriate thread to bring up this discussion, but what exactly are your thoughts on those with the "unshakable feeling" that their beliefs are the right one?

Clearly the origin of the "feeling" is what could easily throw it into question... (I had an unshakable feeling that Santa Claus existed for quite some time)

And on a loosely related note, what about other "feelings" along the same lines? The example that keeps coming to the forefront of my head is that silly "love" thing. The attraction that tends to defy logic, but is still the catalyst for a continued relationship between two humans because it "feels right," so to speak.

This question isn't just for David, though I think his thoughts on the matter would be interesting. I'd also like to qualify this post in saying I'm not making any claims about the validity of "having a feeling" being ample evidence to subscribe to any belief system, nor the contrary, and I'm not also saying that theological beliefs are merely a matter of emotions. I have my own thoughts on these issues, but the entire purpose of this post is inquisition, and I think this issue, no matter how poorly I word it, could spark some interesting discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I understand your point, I think the comparison of love and faith is not useful. In many ways, love is an uncontrolled physiological response to another human, whereas faith is a voluntary shutting down of mans rational faculty.

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
To believe that God is unhappy with those who don't believe in a specific religion that is supposedly the true one, it is necessary that those who do believe in it do not merely say that they hope they are right or have an unshakable feeling they are right. After all those who believe in other religions can say the same thing. If believers of religion A think that believers of religion B will be sent to hell by a just God, it is necessary that they believe that an OBJECTIVE examination of the evidence should lead you to believe that religion A is more likely to be accurate than all the other competing theories, plus those yet to be espoused, combined.

It is important to understand that it is only these religions and their strict practioners that I personally have a serious problem with.

[/ QUOTE ]

Though I have no clue if you will actually respond to this, or even if this is an appropriate thread to bring up this discussion, but what exactly are your thoughts on those with the "unshakable feeling" that their beliefs are the right one?

Clearly the origin of the "feeling" is what could easily throw it into question... (I had an unshakable feeling that Santa Claus existed for quite some time)

And on a loosely related note, what about other "feelings" along the same lines? The example that keeps coming to the forefront of my head is that silly "love" thing. The attraction that tends to defy logic, but is still the catalyst for a continued relationship between two humans because it "feels right," so to speak.

This question isn't just for David, though I think his thoughts on the matter would be interesting. I'd also like to qualify this post in saying I'm not making any claims about the validity of "having a feeling" being ample evidence to subscribe to any belief system, nor the contrary, and I'm not also saying that theological beliefs are merely a matter of emotions. I have my own thoughts on these issues, but the entire purpose of this post is inquisition, and I think this issue, no matter how poorly I word it, could spark some interesting discussion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Although I understand your point, I think the comparison of love and faith is not useful. In many ways, love is an uncontrolled physiological response to another human, whereas faith is a voluntary shutting down of mans rational faculty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well I wasn't necessarily saying the two are closely related... but I'm not so sure I totally agree with your second point. I am sure that there are people who have "faith" because of the unshakable, 'uncontrollable' feeling they have that their faith is correct. That's not a voluntary (read as:conscious) shutting down of anything. Now, that doesn't necessarily make it more valid, I will clearly grant that.

On reading your post again, the first part of my response will only apply based on one interpretation of your point. Basically, I'm not sure where the causation lies... but if you're contending that said feeling exists, and causes man to voluntarily ignore reason, in order to supplement that belief (which sounds oddly similar to addiction, on a side note)

If this is the case (and I'm sure it is with at least SOME of the 'faithful'), where the unshakable feeling comes first, what of the feeling itself? Merely psychological issues? Possibly a human predisposition toward religion?

And to agree with one point: you're right, the comparison isn't really useful. In most senses of the word, discussing theology with a bunch of poker players on a message board isn't that useful, but I enjoy it.

[etgryphon]

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In many ways, love is an uncontrolled physiological response to another human, whereas faith is a voluntary shutting down of mans rational faculty.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. And to borrow from Obi-Wan Kenobi, "...from a certain point of view."

I have faith that God is in control because of evidence. I have faith in God because for my whole life He has never proved himself unfaithful to me. I have faith in God because I have evidence of His faithfulness in Scripture.

I have faith because I exercise my God-given rationality and logical experiance.

The day that God proves to be truely unfaithful to me will be the day that He will not exist. But, I will bet my whole life that this will never occur.

-Gryph

[etgryphon]

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In most senses of the word, discussing theology with a bunch of poker players on a message board isn't that useful, but I enjoy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said...Bravo!

-Gryph