A real question - alternative

[PairTheBoard]

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sexdrugsmoney --

Honestly, any non-Christians who say they don't believe in it should really ask themselves if they know what *it* is first, and not Rusell or anyone else's version of it.


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Not sexdrugsmoney's version either.

imo, The reason we have Christianity today is because there was something magnificent about Jesus which made him the focal point of a new spritual consciousness for the people he touched and then the people they touched and so on. If you are going to find that magnificence the place you will find it is in your heart. Do not let old sick theologies stand in your way. If you find it, live it. Paul never knew Jesus in person either. He was struck by some kind of conversion experience. If you have such an experience you have as much right to develop a theology to explain it as he did.

PairTheBoard

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Very good point.

But then, didn't Jesus teach that "whatsover you do unto the least of God's children, so you do unto me"?
And, didn't he also teach (through the parable of the good samaritan) that you must not refuse to help where help is needed?

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Dont worry, when you press the button and find out for sure He exists, you can ask Him yourself to clear up any misunderstandings we have down here on earth as to His plan.

[djj6835]

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If I were 50% sure, I'd do it.

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Keep in mind that there is a 50% chance that god exists according to that professor from oxford. He either does exist or he doesn't....50%.

[Zeno]

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Which made me think of a related question ...


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[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thank You, Mr. usmhot.

-Zeno

[sexdrugsmoney]

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So god made me a reasonaing creature unable to believe without understanding. He also made be [censured] and will save me if I have the faith he know I cannot have.

So I'm dammed. Thanks a lot god.

You worship this monster?

chez

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It's easy to characterize God in a less than favorable light, but if you 'walk a mile in his shoes' I think you can understand a lot of the frustrations he has felt over the years with the human race.

I mean honestly, a lot of us cnuts at times, well intentioned but we make mistakes and normally that involves being selfish and hurting others.

I think despite what you may think of God's conduct up to date, his plans for the world and the one after, the fact that he sent a sacrifice that all you would have to do is accept & believe is pretty amazing, so you are only damned if you choose to be.

Life's a gamble, your soul is the chip, take a punt mate, it's worthless if you don't put it on the table while you are here, this casino closes for everyone at different times, and we don't know when.

Cheers,
SDM

[sexdrugsmoney]

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Do not let old sick theologies stand in your way. If you find it, live it. Paul never knew Jesus in person either. He was struck by some kind of conversion experience. If you have such an experience you have as much right to develop a theology to explain it as he did.

PairTheBoard

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Can you expound upon this please mi amigo?

Cheers,
SDM

[PairTheBoard]

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Do not let old sick theologies stand in your way. If you find it, live it. Paul never knew Jesus in person either. He was struck by some kind of conversion experience. If you have such an experience you have as much right to develop a theology to explain it as he did.

PairTheBoard

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Can you expound upon this please mi amigo?

Cheers,
SDM

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I'm suprised I haven't been cursed by now into the ultimate last googolplex chamber of hell for daring to say something so beyond the pale of blasphemy. I'm afraid to say much more for fear of making my already infinitely horrible prospective afterlife even worse.

PairTheBoard

[usmhot]

Simnple question for you then, SDM ...
Is there anything you wouldn't forgive your kids?
In other words, is there anything your kids could do for which you would see them suffer eternally?

If you don't have kids then replace 'kids' with whoever you feel complete and total love for.

[PairTheBoard]

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usmhot --
If you could find out with 100% certainty that God (of the Christian faith) exists, but that in being given that 100% proof you had to accept all of Christ's religious teachings and completely serve Him, would you want to find out?

Remember, if you are going to completely serve Christ, you have to devote your whole life to others - helping the poor and sick and spreading his teachings.

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Something to consider:

" The miracle is not that we do this work, but that we are happy to do it." -- Mother Teresa


PairTheBoard

[sexdrugsmoney]

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Simnple question for you then, SDM ...
Is there anything you wouldn't forgive your kids?
In other words, is there anything your kids could do for which you would see them suffer eternally?

If you don't have kids then replace 'kids' with whoever you feel complete and total love for.

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suffer eternally has been highlighted in your post because it is a crucial point to be addressed for one to be able to answer your question properly.

3 versions of hell:

1) Book of Revelations/Dante's Inferno (eternal)
2) Book of Revelations/Dante's Inferno (limited)
3) Destruction

Most people believe Hell is hot and forever, I assume this is your idea of eternal suffering.

The other ideas are more based on 'eternal seperation from God/destruction of the soul - ceases to exist'.

The Bible isn't totally clear about hell for those who don't take the Mark of the Beast. (we'll come back to the Mark of the Beast in a minute, read on)

Now I'll answer your question.

Is there anything my kids could do in which I would want to see them suffer eternally? (Dante's hell)

No. I can't concieve of my kids doing anything in that I'd want them to suffer forever, but they could do a few things of which I would want to kill them myself. (destruction - 2nd and 3rd hell - see above)

In regards to 'eternal seperation from God' as in "no fire, just deprived of his prescence" there are many things your kids could do in which you would have to turn your back on them and you can't have them in your house ... one example is if your child was a heroin addict and constantly stole from you and escaped from rehab many times and you have tried everything, eventually you would have to turn your back, and hope that they would make the right choice to come back to you. (this idea resembles Christianity, of man being unclean in sin to enter God's kingdom, but acceptance of Christ allows entry)

The Christian God is supposed to be the 'best father' and 'loves his children', so if I couldn't think of a thing my kids could do in which I'd want to see them suffer eternally therefore logically God is unable to also.

But the Mark of the Beast seems a seperation situation. (at least on the surface of things)

Granted I haven't read the Book of Revelations in a while, it says those who take it go to the lake of fire and the 'smoke of their torment ascends up forever'.

This implies they are tormented forever, I'm not sure if any other passage specifically states they actually are tormented forever, if not, could the smoke of their torment be eternal and survive long after their destruction? (soul is tormented then destroyed, but a memory remains forever in the new heaven, perhaps as a warning for any other angel not to try and pull a 'lucifer' and start a coup d'etat?)

I don't know, its all very hard to understand.

Only reading the Bible cover to cover will give you a proper perspective of the Judeo-Christian God, but it seems he is capable of great love, but also great anger.

The Book of Job is a book I have personally struggled with and have found it very hard to accept its portrayal of God, as it is quite severe.

I don't know if the book is a fake, and granted I haven't read enough scholarly opinion of it to really warrant a proper opinion of my own on it, so I don't know.

Hope i answered your question.

Cheers,
SDM