Is it PC to check this turn? - Page 2

KDawgCometh · #11 03-26-2005, 12:08 AM

hmmm, that jack would be a lot nicer if it was a spade. I don't mind this check as its a small pot and a checkraise might have to make you fold top pair here

CallMeIshmael · #12 03-26-2005, 12:10 AM

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Something a little more than 4, about 5 I guess.

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If you go with 5, I need 8.2-1 to make it neutral EV.

Assuming I get checkraised, I will be getting 7.75-1. Assuming I get 1BB in when I win on the river, wouldn't that make it a call?

CallMeIshmael · #13 03-26-2005, 12:12 AM

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hmmm, that jack would be a lot nicer if it was a spade.

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Gimme a royal draw, and I show you a man who bets!

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I don't mind this check as its a small pot and a checkraise might have to make you fold top pair here

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Thats what I really dont want to have to do. Folding hurts me inside with this hand.

einbert · #14 03-26-2005, 12:14 AM

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Something a little more than 4, about 5 I guess.

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If you go with 5, I need 8.2-1 to make it neutral EV.

Assuming I get checkraised, I will be getting 7.75-1. Assuming I get 1BB in when I win on the river, wouldn't that make it a call?

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I guess it's closer than I thought.

If you hit your ace obviously it's good, but if you hit a king and raise and get 3-bet you will have to call. And a worse hand than your broadway straight will just call your raise. So I'm not sure.

CallMeIshmael · #15 03-26-2005, 12:20 AM

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I guess it's closer than I thought.

If you hit your ace obviously it's good, but if you hit a king and raise and get 3-bet you will have to call. And a worse hand than your broadway straight will just call your raise. So I'm not sure.

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Basically, I really really didn't want be checkraised in this hand... so, I was (on the river). Call or fold?

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 5 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, Hero...

cnfuzzd · #16 03-26-2005, 12:34 AM

First, i bet. I think its an easy bet. Loose players love to call flop bets with little to nothing, and will be much more likely to give up on the turn. With a hand as strong as TP with no overs possible, im value betting this turn.

As for dealing with a checkraise, thats more difficult, sort of. I think you have an easy call on the checkraise itself, but do you call a river bet unimproved. This is where a read would be nice, as your opponent could be checkraising a scare card that he thinks might have also brought him half the pot. I think im calling the river here unimproved, but im not sure thats correct because i substantial portion of the time that im not losing this pot, i may be splitting it, reducing the EV of calling.

peace

john nickle

CallMeIshmael · #17 03-26-2005, 12:45 AM

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as your opponent could be checkraising a scare card that he thinks might have also brought him half the pot.

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Without a read that includes "he's a two plus twoer" this is almost certainly impossible.

cnfuzzd · #18 03-26-2005, 01:26 AM

while by no means frequent, i see moves like this fairly regularly, though this is at the 3/6 and not 2/4, and i am willing to agree that your statement probably better describes the 2/4 metagame.

However, to always assume that a checkraise here means a J is somewhat weak, IMO. My memory is like a leaky sieve on a rusty scow, but i remember seeing desperation raises with hands like 77 here at all levels of party ive played on. Purely anecdotal though.

Regardless, i think you are either free rolling against a small ace, or value betting against a weaker hand, or charging a draw often enough on this turn to justfiy a bet. Especially since if your opponents arent savvy enough to raise this scare card they may also be dense enough to throw away their now two pair.

peace

john nickle