Gotta fold this to a raise right?

[tizim]

I'm usually check-calling this river. Much of the value of betting out on a 4-flush river HU exists because your opponent will call with hands you beat, since it's HU for only 1 bet.

Adding in the 3rd person changes the situation entirely...

1) You're hoping that TWO players are diamond-less

2) Your opponents are much less likely to call with pairs. CO sees that you're unafraid of leading into two players on a 4th diamond, AND he must beat the Button behind him as well. If CO actually calls with something like KJ, Button is then very unlikely to overcall with just a pair, since he must beat two players who both don't seem fazed by the 4-flush. Heads up, your opponent may call without a diamond, but 3-way, it's very unlikely that BOTH players will, so much of the value of leading is lost.

3) If CO folds and Button has tendencies to bluff, this is a very tempting spot to bluff. The pot is 11BB, it's now heads up, if he makes any reads at all, and he probably sees you as a tight player. Your line may even look to him like a humongous continuation bet w/ AA-JJ or AK with no diamond.

4) You'll often get a free showdown against opponents with a flush smaller than T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

The bottom line is that Clarkmeister's theorem doesn't apply here since you have to beat more players, they're less likely to call, and you'll often get a free showdown against a flush.

[sy_or_bust]

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No way that you fold! 13BB is to big to give up without a fight. If you get into the habit of folding in these situations people will take a shot at you. Call everytime.

vince

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Can you go back to the micro's and come back in 500 posts?

Krishan

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[sy_or_bust]

Is this river value bet generally recommended? It must be thin, if it exists at all, no?