Is this a value bet?

[krishanleong]

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into one person, probably.

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I disagree. There have to be special circumstances or a read to value bet ace high on the river. Even against a single opponent.

Krishan

[sthief09]

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into one person, probably.

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I disagree. There have to be special circumstances or a read to value bet ace high on the river. Even against a single opponent.

Krishan

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a player with a 60 VPIP is pretty special. I value bet A high at least a few times a session and I'd estimate that I win around 2/3 of the time. it's not hugely profitable but they call with anything if there's trips on the board

[sthief09]

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Does it have something to do with the fundamental theorem of poker? If so then yes I do.

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well, I guess anything could have to do with the FTOP, so I guess it could

but basically think about the scenarios.

Situation: He has a pair or quads
if you bet, he calls (or you bet, he raises, you fold)
if you check, he bets, you call

Net: it doesn't matter, as you pay 1 bet and lose in both cases


Situation: He has K high or a worse A high-
if you bet, he calls sometimes
if you check, he checks

Net: you gain by betting the times he pays off with a worse hand


Situation: He has worse than Q high
if you bet, he folds
if you check, he checks behind because he's passive

Net: doesn't matter. in each situation you win the pot and don't get a bet from him on the river


there are some differences, but I don't think they apply so much here:
- sometimes players will check through with a worse hand
- sometimes players will bluff raise and you usually have to fold or make a crying call
- sometimes you can induce a bluff by checking
- sometimes a player is so passive that you can check-fold

against very aggressive players, they might have a good bluffing frequency and make it very difficult on you if you bet. they also will bluff more, so checking is better. against tight-passive players, you won't get paid off by A high but they also might not bet a better hand. against very passive players, you can check and fold, knowing they won't bluff.

against loose players that are capable of making routine value bets (like a 5 or 8 here), or make the occasional bluff if checked to, I think betting is best. if it was me vs. the loose passive CO, I might check-fold, but I think betting is better than check-calling

[helpmeout]

What makes you think a passive player is going to bet a low pair here?

They arent thinking about value bets they are thinking about getting a free showdown.

[sthief09]

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What makes you think a passive player is going to bet a low pair here?

They arent thinking about value bets they are thinking about getting a free showdown.

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they don't just have a pair, they have a FULL HOUSE!!!!! I'd say like 80-90% of 5/10 players will bet the river headsup with a 5.

[krishanleong]

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into one person, probably.

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I disagree. There have to be special circumstances or a read to value bet ace high on the river. Even against a single opponent.

Krishan

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a player with a 60 VPIP is pretty special. I value bet A high at least a few times a session and I'd estimate that I win around 2/3 of the time. it's not hugely profitable but they call with anything if there's trips on the board

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A player with 60% VP$IP is ordinary. A player with 60% WTSD would qualify. A situation where you 3-bet a player with AK in position might qualify.

Krishan

[krishanleong]

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What makes you think a passive player is going to bet a low pair here?

They arent thinking about value bets they are thinking about getting a free showdown.

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they don't just have a pair, they have a FULL HOUSE!!!!! I'd say like 80-90% of 5/10 players will bet the river headsup with a 5.

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I disagree here too. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I think lots of players will check behind with better hands here.

Krishan

[helpmeout]

Yeah I guess against one person its a no brainer value bet(obviously expecting the guy to call with Ahigh) against 2 I'd prefer check/call check/fold depending on where the bet comes from.

[tolbiny]

Yeah, it takes a special read for me aswell.

Notes: Plays PP 5-10 Sh.
Action: Value bet A high on river.

[krishanleong]

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Yeah, it takes a special read for me aswell.

Notes: Plays PP 5-10 Sh.
Action: Value bet A high on river.

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I think you are disagreeing with me. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] Having trouble telling. Here is a link with a more thorough discussion.

link'

Krishan