River mucking situation in home game

[Paul2432]

I'll weigh in on the side that player A should get the pot. I assume the identity of player A's hand is not in question.

The purpose of rules is to ensure fairness in the event of an irregularity, not to provide an opportunity for a losing hand to win a pot. The poker playing is done once the show down is reached so the overriding concern should be to award the pot to the best hand while ensuring fairness to all players. Player A's action provides no possible angle shot to player A so he should not be penalized.

Paul

[baggins]

I think you've said it best, Paul2432.

[GuyOnTilt]

Without a doubt, Player B should get the pot. Player A mucked his hand before an actual showdown book place, so the "cards speak" rule has no real bearing here. If Player B should've turned over his cards, AND THEN Player A mucked, then a showdown took place and the best hand shown should be awarded the pot. But since Player A mucked his cards before a winner could be determined, his hand is technically mucked and dead. The hand was not over and a winner was not declared before he mucked, so his hand is dead and the last live hand should be awarded the pot.

GoT

[wacki]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll weigh in on the side that player A should get the pot. I assume the identity of player A's hand is not in question.

The purpose of rules is to ensure fairness in the event of an irregularity, not to provide an opportunity for a losing hand to win a pot. The poker playing is done once the show down is reached so the overriding concern should be to award the pot to the best hand while ensuring fairness to all players. Player A's action provides no possible angle shot to player A so he should not be penalized.

Paul

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what you meant with your last sentence, but I agree with the rest.

I saw a WSOP satellite and Phil Hellmuth was up against Dan Harrington. Dan was bluffing Phil. When Phil called Dan Harrington said "good job Phil you win" and then threw his cards in. When the cards landed someone at the table noticed that he had a flush. Dan was struck with shock and then started laughing.

Phil, accused dan of Slowrolling which is a legal, but unethical technique to put the other players on tilt. Phil then said that he waited a year to catch dan in a bluff. Because he knows what he looks like, he caught him bluffing and then lost because "Dan didn't even know what he had". If that doesn't settle the arguement, I don't know what would.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
I saw a WSOP satellite and Phil Hellmuth was up against Dan Harrington. Dan was bluffing Phil. When Phil called Dan Harrington said "good job Phil you win" and then threw his cards in. When the cards landed someone at the table noticed that he had a flush. Dan was struck with shock and then started laughing.

Phil, accused dan of Slowrolling which is a legal, but unethical technique to put the other players on tilt. Phil then said that he waited a year to catch dan in a bluff. Because he knows what he looks like, he caught him bluffing and then lost because "Dan didn't even know what he had". If that doesn't settle the arguement, I don't know what would.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's weird. That sounds exactly, down to Phil's post-hand comments, like what happened in his hand v. TJ Cloutier in the Showdown at the Sands.

[ZManODS]

[ QUOTE ]
That's weird. That sounds exactly, down to Phil's post-hand comments, like what happened in his hand v. TJ Cloutier in the Showdown at the Sands.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is correct. I believe the poster is mistaken.

I know this for a fact because its just about the only article i read in that particular magazine... card player maybe? Actually i dont think it was CP, it was some free magazine they had at the Sahara in vegas. The only difference was that he knew TJ would not slow roll so it was a genuine mistake.

[Wiscer]

Isn't the definition of "mucking your hand" releasing your cards face down on the table? How can placing your cards face up on the table in a way such that the cards are easily identifiable as your cards be considered mucking, even if they end up touching the muck?

Saying "nice hand" but turning your cards face up has never constituted a muck/fold anywhere I've played. The fact that his cards touched the muck doesn't mean they are dead if they are face up and can be identified as his cards, IMO. Now if he had faced a bet and not called the bet and did this, then clearly he loses because he didn't call a bet and therefore he gave up his right to the pot.

Now you could take the line of reasoning that it is all about intent, but then you have to be clear that cards don't speak in your game.

[RydenStoompala]

If the cards are in the muck, they're dead and everyone playing should know that. You want a good game to keep going then you should follow all the rules. It keeps disputes to a minimum.