Calling preflop raises after limping" Revisited

[David Steele]

"For at least two reasons... you might be up against a better hand from the raiser... you now have to put up twice the cash."

Neither of these are reasons.
1. It is not simply a question of who has the best hand preflop.

2. You only have to put up the other half of the cash not
twice the cash, but even if it were true, it is not a reason in itself.

BTW, which hands are thinking of folding?Maybe you should
tighten up your limping requirements instead of this.


D.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi David,
I was thinking smalle suited connectors in the Colorado $2-5 game. It often plays like $5 flat bet, so no doubling on the last two streets.

So I was thinking that implied odds go out the window in that case.

I was also thinking, maybe there are cases I don't even know about.

Feel free to straighten me out if I have a misconception.

Sincerely,
AA

[David Steele]

I don't really know about that game you mention.

The main idea I think, is that if you limp with
a hand, you expect to be able to call one more
bet, otherwise you shouldn't limp in the first place.

Maybe if the raise is very unexpected and comes from a particular player, that makes you think your hand is totally
dominated, I could see it in this rare situation.

D.

[Ed Miller]

If you limp in with a small suited connector for $2 and someone raises $5 to $7, then it will be correct to muck it in most circumstances. Indeed, the advice you are getting is not necessarily appropriate if limping means $2 to you and calling a raise means calling $5 more.

[SoBeDude]

I believe another poster pointed out that if you were calling two bets cold with the same limping hand you'd muck.

Heck ya.

Think of this:

There are hands with which you should open-raise, but NOT call with for 2 bets.

And there are a LOT of those. One prominent one thats been discussed here recently is AJo. I will not call with that hand if there is a raise from a good EP/MP player. It'll hit the muck every time. But I'll open-raise with it for sure in LP, and some times in MP too.

And I've learned to toss KQo to a re-raise preflop to.

KTs: I'll open raise from MP/LP. call if limpers already in, and fold it to an EP/MP raise.

I think it was said in HPFAP. You should be putting money in the pot when you want OTHERS to call you, NOT when others want YOU to call them.

I've grown to really appreciate the truth to that statement.

-Scott

[Pringle]

The basic idea here is that the damage has already been done. You might not have limped if you would have known that it would be raised; but, your original limping money is now already in the pot, and you are being offered a new proposition:

Would you like to see the flop for one bet?

So you answer yes.

But the lesson to be learned is that you should try to forsee those late position raises, or at least roughly know the probability that they will happen, so you can avoid limping from middle position with 55 or whatever (unless you're getting sufficient callers).

Pringle

[tewall]

If there are n opponents, and the pot the first time around is P then you are getting P:1 for the first call and P+n:1 for the second. Even though your chances are worse (in view of the raise), they won't be enough worse to make the improved P+n:1 call not worth making.

The problem of getting strung along for extra bets is why limping in early is risky and why the hands you can limp in differ depending on how loose and passive the game is.

The later the position you have, the less likely someone will raise behind you, and worth your position in later rounds drawing hands will be easier to play.

The way to avoid the problem is to be very cautious when limping early, being careful to do so in games where you're likely to get many players seeing the flop and they play passively.