What is the best path?

[Bluffoon]

Sounds like you are doing a great job. I would focus on the tilt. I think it is important that a newer player "get" the concept that suckouts are good. It is a huge red flag to me when I hear a player complain about suckouts and idiots hitting with K2o and such. It indicates a lack of fundamental understanding of the game.

I would concentrate on bringing him to a more complete understanding of the "nature" of the game before you move him up.

[Kirg]

This might have something to do with him moving up so quickly. When you move up slowly you obviously slowly adjust to the amount of $$ in the swings while playing. If you play 1/2 and go to 3/6, the $$ triples and this is mentally harder to deal with then if that same person had gone from 1/2 to 2/4 to 3/6. Of course since you're friend is obviously good having him play lesser limits just to get used to this might be a waste of time.

Something that worked for me was relating everything to BB's, now I knew this in my head but of course convincing yourself of something doesn't always work so easy. So this is where my wife comes in, I had explained her some of the basics of poker, bankroll management etc. So after I moved up in limits and I would finish a day of work all depressed because of a loss we would usually have the following conversation.

Wife: How'd you do?
Me: Lost $240...in 2 hours.
Wife: That's it?
Me: What?
Wife: How many BB's is that?
Me: ....40 (I'd just moved up to 3/6)
Wife: Pff, that's nothing. You've had worse, besides isn't a 40BB loss nothing?
Me: Yeah, yeah, yeah. *stomping off grumbling but grinning*

The longer I played the new limit the shorter these conversations became until I just went "Yeah yeah, X big bets, I know!!" before she even opened her mouth.

Long story short my advice is try something like that with your friend, relate everything to BB's every time he complains about a certain $$ amount. Over and over and over.

[stigmata]

Lend him your copy of Inside the Poker Mind.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Lend him your copy of Inside the Poker Mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think he's read it once or twice about 6 months ago. He might even be the person who has my copy right now, but yeah, I think that's a great idea. I'll get on that.

[smartalecc5]

Man, I wish I had a friend like bicycle kick to tutor me and discuss hands with all day.

[bobbyi]

Honestly, everything here sounds good. He is serious and wants to learn, you are watching him play and answering his questions, he is getting in 10k hands/mo which is a good amount for someone with a time consuming job and gf. I think you should just stick with the approach you are using now. It sounds like the only real problem is that he is having trouble adjusting to the swings of 3/6-6, but that is natural as not long ago he was playing in a game one sixth that size. As he gains confidence and gets used to the game, his tiltiness and worrying about swings will likely go away. If not, then you will have a problem, but don't be too quick to assume that things are going to be bad in that department.

The only other thing is don't push him too fast. If he makes it to 10/20 in a few months, that is great, but let him move up as he is ready and don't worry if he is "behind schedule". There is still money to be made at 5/10 and if he doesn't make it to 10/20 until (for example) the spring, he shouldn't see that as some sort of failure. It's possible that pressure to win quickly and move up is contributing to his anxieties about losing sessions. Try to build a culture in which you both focus on learning and development and let the results take care of themselves.

[PokerBob]

IMO the biggest hurdle he needs to conquer is the emotional trauma that comes with losing. You can provide him with all the poker knowledge that he needs, so IMO that is a non-issue. You are correct (or at least your assumptions reflect my limited experience) that the swings in 5/10 6max can be insane. I think they may be magnified in your friend's case because he is not getting in all that many hands per month, and so a downswing will haunt him for a great deal of TIME, but a realtaively short amount of HANDS. (I hope that makes sense.) He needs perspective, which I think you can give him by showing him a graph of your progress and how there can be 10-15K stretches where one breaks even. There was a thread with the graphs of many 6max players recently. It may do him some good to take a look at that. I have 65K hands at 6max with lotsa ups and downs (I'm a small winner in that game). If you want, I can PM him a graph of it to give him a feel for things. If he can get used to the fact that insane beats and bad runs are "normal", he'll be fine. But tilt is a demon that ruins many. I hope it works out.

[Nigel]

BK,

Guys training for big squats will often do walkouts (basically, just standing with the loaded bar on your back) with much more weight than they can actually squat. It gives their body a chance to adapt to handling much heavier weight, and makes their current squatting weight feel much lighter when they rack that up. It helps build confidence too.

Have your buddy take some of his profit and play short, very focused, slightly tight (no 3 betting 22, etc.), "A game" sessions at 5/10 6 max. As he starts mixing these into his schedule, it should really start to lessen the effect of the dollar swings in the 3/6 which may feel more like play money compared to the 5/10. Once he makes his way to the 5/10 full time, have him do it with 10/20, etc.

It won't help with the fact that he hates to lose (don't we all), so he'll need to address that issue on it's own, but it may take some of the sting out of losing when the swings don't feel so monumental.

That's all I can think of for now - good luck to him,

Nigel

[bugstud]

bob and bobby nailed this.

[poker-penguin]

[ QUOTE ]
Man, I wish I had a friend like bicycle kick to tutor me and discuss hands with all day.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, you need a new roommate BK? I'll even switch to skiing from snowboarding if I have to.