PP "juicing" vs. other sites

[aargh57]

Quite often when I'm at a table and I see someone start whining about the terrible "bad beat" they've taken they start to say how this site is rigged. Many times they haven't even suffered anything close to a bad beat. A lot of times people look at the card that completed their opponents draw as the only card that would've improved them. For example, a guy's got 2nd pair with an overcard and a flush draw. Now he hits his 2nd pair card on the river to give him trips and his opponent starts whining about the "fish" beating him with his "2 outer".

Ok, I get it. This happens at all the sites and is almost certainly a response from disgruntled gamblers (which is mostly what I was thinking). Thanks for all the replies. That was exactly what I was hoping everybody would say. I just wanted the opinions of more experienced online players. That helps make me much more confident in what's going on. Sorry to bring up the old topics, but it sure has helped and again thanks for the responses.


zenpractice

[FlFishOn]

When PP first came on the scene no one believed the game was 'right'. Too much action, too many beats. This is ancient history, going back several years.

There now exists a huge cohort of players that really know nothing else save PP. They defend it like their mother.

There is no reason to believe that any online poker room is honest. There is no direct proof available anywhere. Every room should be suspect. I have 10+ years B&M pro poker experience and I will not play at Party with tiny exceptions. The game is different.

You'll have to make up your own mind.

[MicroBob]

yes...this bit where one player complains about the 2-outer when actually he lost to a 6-outer (or more) is fairly common.


played a single-table satellite at the WSOP and two guys went all-in.
The guy on a draw hit a royal-flush on the turn and the whole table went bananas.
Afterwards, me and another guy had to take a couple moments to remember that it wasn't really a 1-outer that he hit. It was just exciting to see the big royal-flush hit on the very next card.

With the straight and flush and over-cards I think the guy actually had 15 outs or something...he just happened to hit the most dramatic of those 15.

[CountDuckula]

Well, I've had enough bad beats happen to me live, that it doesn't seem so strange online. I sat next to a guy at the Taj in AC who played at least 90% of his hands, ran into him 3 times with good hands (QQ, AK, KK), and lost each time to things like 63o or 92s. I had another experience at the Excalibur in LV, where I had AA, and managed to bet and raise everyone out of the pot except one guy who called every last bet. He had 65o, and hit a 6 and a 5 on the turn and river (I don't remember which order); he had literally no other outs.

I'm still not at the point where I can be philosophical about it; I still let loose with a few cries of "You b&$^#!%d" when it happens online (I try to stay on a much more even keel live, so the other people don't realize that I'm on tilt, however briefly). [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] But I know it can and does happen with shuffles that are as random as practicable, and I try to let it go and move on to the next hand.

And I've heard "This site is rigged!" at every single site I've ever played. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-Mike

[jman220]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no reason to believe that any online poker room is honest. There is no direct proof available anywhere. Every room should be suspect. I have 10+ years B&M pro poker experience and I will not play at Party with tiny exceptions. The game is different. quote]

The game is absolutely 100 percent different from B & M, night and day, just not for the reasons you are stating. Online, I can beat as high as $100 nl and very modest success at $200 nl. Live I can beat as high as 1k nl, and probably higher if I had the roll.

[MicroBob]

I made a semi-recent post on my blog comparing bad-beats to other sports-percentages.


what about a 30% 3-point shooter suddenly hitting 8 triples in a row (same as a 30/70 underdog ALWAYS beating the favorite)?
or an 80% free-throw shooter going 6-for-14 from the line (same as the higher pocket-pair getting knocked off 8 of 14 times)?

A pitcher faces a baseball team that has a combined batting average of .260: You'd think that some of the online-poker players would envision this pitcher as being likely to pitch a no-hitter every time. Afterall, each individual batter only has a 26% chance of getting a hit.
What happens when the other team peppers him for 11 hits in just 4 innings or collects 4 hits in a row? RIGGED. This baseball game is RIGGED I tell you!!!


Yup....80/20 favorites are indeed big favorites in poker. But you're still going to lose 1 in 5 times. And losing back-to-back or even 3 straight time in such situations isn't really so impossible.
In fact, it's almost impossible for that to NOT happen.


Just another way of thinking about all this bad-beat stuff and the numbers involved I suppose.

[CraigJ]

Of course Party Poker is rigged. You only have to play a few sessions to see its not like playing with "real" cards. Basically PP throws you in winning cycles and losing cycles. There is a pretty easy way to tell when you switch from one to the other (and no I am not telling, and give up my advantage). PP acutally sent me a pop up the other day telling me to turn off the computer program I was using to give me an unfair advantage. But I wasn't using a program, just keeping track of my hands so I could determine when I was being swithced from a losing cycle to a winning cycle. I was pretty blatant about it, folding pocket aces when I knew I was in the losing cycle and then paying big money to hit an inside straight when I was in the winning cycle (which of course I hit).

But yeah PP is by no means random. And that's fine if you don't believe me because I am on there and so are many others who know how to to keep track of the cycles. And if you happen to have the misfortune of being on a table with one of us, we are going to take your money and there is nothing you can do about it.

[MicroBob]

i am very interested in this phenomenon.
Perhaps you could PM me your nickname on party (or skins).
I would be happy to sit at your table and play the way I regularly play (which includes NOT folding pocket aces and NOT drawing to inside-straights without the appropriate pot-odds, etc etc).

Since you are convinced that my way of playing is guaranteed to lose I would think you would have nothing to fear by my style of play and you would welcome me to your table.

Looking forward to hearing back from you (and hoping you play at limits that are neither too low nor too high for me).

[Neil Stevens]

[ QUOTE ]
A pitcher faces a baseball team that has a combined batting average of .260: You'd think that some of the online-poker players would envision this pitcher as being likely to pitch a no-hitter every time. Afterall, each individual batter only has a 26% chance of getting a hit.
What happens when the other team peppers him for 11 hits in just 4 innings or collects 4 hits in a row? RIGGED. This baseball game is RIGGED I tell you!!!

[/ QUOTE ]
Excellent analogy, that baseball one.

Pro baseball players are a lot like poker players, in that they have to learn quickly how to shake off a slump.