Abortion, and birth control

[BluffTHIS!]

It is a great poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.
-Mother Teresa of Calcutta

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It is a great poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you wish.
-Mother Teresa of Calcutta

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Yes, I guess it is a good idea to have even more children in Calcutta. The place can really sustain them and they are going to have an extremely dignified life.

[BluffTHIS!]

God has created us for an eternal purpose, and not just to have the most happy life on earth possible without any misery or suffering. But Mother Teresa was proof that God provides loving care for those marginalized by society, an example which if followed by more people would provide for all.

And maintaining that a fetus is not a person, even to the ridiculous length of saying the same regarding partial birth abortion where a borderline viable fetus is first partially delivered so that its head may be crushed, doesn't make that assertion so.

[Peter666]

"The issue should be why should someone have to right to impose his/her moral views on another."

The aborting of a fetus is the ultimate in imposing one's moral views on another, in this case, on the fetus. The state recognizes the rights of a fetus when a pregnant woman is killed or when a fetus is put in an incubator. So that is a non starter.

The second point about the smokers is not similar in that it is seen as an addiction and is customarily handled in a different way. However, if the state offered a stop smoking program that allowed addicts to totally quit their addiction but the smoker decided to start again and then has medical problems as a result, he surely should be found liable for all treatments and expenses.

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... maintaining that a fetus is not a person, ...

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As far as I know, even in the USA a foetus is not a person. A person nhas an obligation (not neccesarily fullfilled) to be registered as a member of society. As far as I know, there is no need to register pregnancies, nor occasions of intercourse, nor looking lecherously at a neighboor because it may lead to conversation, contact and then intercourse, which could result in the birth of an individual.

In my opinion, if there is no victim there is no crime. The opposite view is an extension of private and personal morality over others who may not share it. Believe me, I am not opposed to yourself, or anyone, choosing not to have an abortion, not using drugs, not going to a prostitute, or not prostituting him/herself, I only object to making individual choices compulsive for others. Neither do I neccesarily choose those behaviours for myself. As bigdaddydvo would say, stay in your lane!

[BluffTHIS!]

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In my opinion, if there is no victim there is no crime.

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Those who wish to kill unborn children to make their lives easier deny that the fetus is a child so as not admit what they are doing.

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"The issue should be why should someone have to right to impose his/her moral views on another."

The aborting of a fetus is the ultimate in imposing one's moral views on another, in this case, on the fetus. The state recognizes the rights of a fetus when a pregnant woman is killed or when a fetus is put in an incubator. So that is a non starter.


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See my post above and add to it the fact that miscarriages are not reportable either, but I guess that would be a god induced abortion!

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The second point about the smokers is not similar in that it is seen as an addiction and is customarily handled in a different way. However, if the state offered a stop smoking program that allowed addicts to totally quit their addiction but the smoker decided to start again and then has medical problems as a result, he surely should be found liable for all treatments and expenses.

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I realise that, especially in the USA, at the end of day, it is a matter who is going to pay for it. A couple of days ago, I heard an interview with a researcher, that compared availability of medical services amongst 8 top developped countries including, the US, Australia, Canada, the UK, etc. and guess what? The good ol' USA scored the worse by a big margin mainly due to, but not only, lack of affordabilty. Maybe it's a euphemism for compassion? Simple thing would be to make the tobacco companies pay the expenses, but that would affect the shareholders, right?

[Peter666]

"miscarriages are not reportable either"

That is not the case. If there is reason to believe that foul play was somehow involved in a miscarriage, charges would be laid. For example, in the case of a domestic dispute, if a husband punches his pregnant wife in the stomach and a miscarriage ensues, he will face much graver charges. Likewise if a woman purposely tries to induce a miscarriage.

I am not in disagreement with your second point.

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"miscarriages are not reportable either"

That is not the case. If there is reason to believe that foul play was somehow involved in a miscarriage, charges would be laid. For example, in the case of a domestic dispute, if a husband punches his pregnant wife in the stomach and a miscarriage ensues, he will face much graver charges. Likewise if a woman purposely tries to induce a miscarriage.

I am not in disagreement with your second point.

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At what point is a miscarriage reportable, except in as much as it is cause of grief/harm to the mother (the reason for recognition of the fact of foetal existence)? That, imo, is why some state recognise right of foetus, because it has an impact on a real person or persons (the parents, especially the mother). I may be corrected here, as I can't claim that I am conversant with all states legislations.

The other part of this point still stands altough it may be better that I post the question on the philosophy forum. A naturally occuring abortion is an act of god, no? Or is it an "accident of nature" (this intelligently designed reality) to conveniently make your god not responsible and preserve its pristime reputation?

[elwoodblues]

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What valid reason does she give for having an abortion?

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Her valid reason is: "it's a personal decision that is none of your damn business."