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#11
05-20-2005, 02:44 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] folding AK from UTG+1 would be good if that's what he has. other than that, what are we cleaning up? the paired board has some nice features for us here. 
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#13
05-20-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] What hands are we hoping to fold out? [/ QUOTE ] wait - we have a kicker - oops [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] disregard my message
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#14
05-20-2005, 02:46 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
After the river raise it seems you must be up against a KT in the BB and maybe AA from UTG+1 from the way it played out is my guess. [/ QUOTE ] You are correct! BB shows KTo and MHING. I figured after his surprise 3-bet on the turn he had at least a T, so I didn't 3-bet incase he hit a boat with K2/KT.
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#15
05-20-2005, 02:48 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] folding AK from UTG+1 would be good if that's what he has. other than that, what are we cleaning up? the paired board has some nice features for us here. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that we win this pot against 6 people as often as against 3? if so don't raise and just call, but with 1.5x2 overcard outs and a backdoor flush draw, for a total of 4.5 outs, our hand isn't very juicy. we're pretty much drawing dead to anyone with a ten
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#16
05-20-2005, 02:49 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] folding AK from UTG+1 would be good if that's what he has. other than that, what are we cleaning up? the paired board has some nice features for us here. [/ QUOTE ] AK seems like a pretty likely holding for him to me (at this point in the hand). I'd like to see him fold his over-pairs too. CO could easily be betting with nothing after it is checked to him. edit: AQ would be good to see him fold too.
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#17
05-20-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] folding AK from UTG+1 would be good if that's what he has. other than that, what are we cleaning up? the paired board has some nice features for us here. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that we win this pot against 6 people as often as against 3? if so don't raise and just call, but with 1.5x2 overcard outs and a backdoor flush draw, for a total of 4.5 outs, our hand isn't very juicy. we're pretty much drawing dead to anyone with a ten [/ QUOTE ] With a total of 4.5 outs, putting two bets on this flop with the chance of being 3-betted doesn't sound that appealing to me as well.
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#18
05-20-2005, 02:52 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
After that flop raise with no reads on anyone at the table I'm just calling down to the river as my hearts come as cheaply as possible. There may be a monster lurking but you cant trash that hand without very hard evidence.
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#19
05-20-2005, 03:03 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] if you're going to play after this flop you have to raise to clean up your 6 overcard outs. i don't think this is negotiable. [/ QUOTE ] folding AK from UTG+1 would be good if that's what he has. other than that, what are we cleaning up? the paired board has some nice features for us here. [/ QUOTE ] are you saying that we win this pot against 6 people as often as against 3? if so don't raise and just call, but with 1.5x2 overcard outs and a backdoor flush draw, for a total of 4.5 outs, our hand isn't very juicy. we're pretty much drawing dead to anyone with a ten [/ QUOTE ] With a total of 4.5 outs, putting two bets on this flop with the chance of being 3-betted doesn't sound that appealing to me as well. [/ QUOTE ] but you'd call this flop with 4 still behind us (and the PF raiser)?
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#20
05-20-2005, 03:04 PM
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Re: AQs - the s is for sucks
[ QUOTE ]
but you'd call this flop with 4 still behind us (and the PF raiser)? [/ QUOTE ] Sure, it's a gamble but don't always have to play raise or fold when there's a bet in front of you. Since we've established that raising doesn't really clear up any overcard outs, how does raising really increase our chances of winning?
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