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#11
10-08-2005, 01:17 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
interesting. i guess i should have stipulated with the caveat that i like money. if you donīt then your line is fine.
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#13
10-08-2005, 01:42 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
Duck,
How exactly do you play this hand from flop to river so all the money gets in? I'm talking about bet sizing your flop raise and turn bet. Too often I either slowplay and get burned (not the case with quads, you know what I mean) or blow them out of the water too early. Your thoughts? Thx, HEK
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#14
10-08-2005, 01:43 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
One other thing, do you play it differently against a solid player?
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#15
10-08-2005, 01:52 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
Against a donkey which is the description OP has given us, I bet enough so by my plans, all the money gets in on the river. If I think he has any sort of overpair or draw I want to get a decent amount in on the flop while also giving him a chance to reraise me... so I would probably raise 2/3 pot on the flop. This would give him the chance to come over the top with an overpair, which is what a donkey would do for sure. If he was bluffing then you lost the 375 you made on the turn but Iīm not concerned with that, more concerned with losing 800 when I donīt stack him. And I think that happens a lot more because when he bets close to full pot on turn he likely has some sort of hand... so if he would have folded on the flop, he probably would have bet less on the turn, thus it didnīt really cost you 375 anyway (does this make sense?)
On the turn I probably bet about 1/2 pot against a donkey because if his line is bet/call, check... it is likely he has a draw. The only way my line changes a lot against a solid player is here, I donīt make it quite so obvious that I in fact want him drawing, so I might bet a little more than I otherwise would... so maybe a little less than 1/2 pot v. donkey a little more v. solid. Then on the river you can just get it all in. Basically against a better player you bet so he can call on a draw or maybe he senses weakness (your bet seems like too much for full house but too little for a hand you are very proud of) and comes over the top if he is aggro. This is obviously not my line every time I flop quads but this board is so draw heavy it is likely he has a draw so why donīt we charge him for it. Another thing - if this guy was frequently firing two large barrels with draws, that is an argument for waiting til the turn to raise because it wonīt be so obvious versus a donkey that youīre full, but I certainly wouldnīt min raise... I might raise to 900 as you suggested holdem. but there are almost no game conditions to me which could possibly justify cold calling for two streets and having more than a pot sized bet left after the river comes.
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#16
10-08-2005, 02:01 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
superb post. You are one the very best posters in this forum, duck.
[ QUOTE ] The only way my line changes a lot against a solid player is here, I donīt make it quite so obvious that I in fact want him drawing, so I might bet a little more than I otherwise would... so maybe a little less than 1/2 pot v. donkey a little more v. solid. [/ QUOTE ] I would think it's the other way around: A donkey will call pot sized bets with draws, solid won't. Therefore, 2/3 or so pot to donkey, 1/2 pot to solid.
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#17
10-08-2005, 02:14 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The only way my line changes a lot against a solid player is here, I donīt make it quite so obvious that I in fact want him drawing, so I might bet a little more than I otherwise would... so maybe a little less than 1/2 pot v. donkey a little more v. solid. [/ QUOTE ] I would think it's the other way around: A donkey will call pot sized bets with draws, solid won't. Therefore, 2/3 or so pot to donkey, 1/2 pot to solid. [/ QUOTE ] i guess it depends. i mean, the key is if iīm up against a somewhat decent player and on this board T997, where is is likely that a lone 9 is full already (obviously not even thinking about TT or 99), and he bets half pot at me on turn, iīm going to fold a draw. So when I say I would bet more than half pot, I think you have to accept that a solid player will fold just a flush draw or a straight draw. What you donīt want to happen is for someone to have some combination draw like JQhh or Ah8h, something like that, but fold realizing that you are likely full. And given the board texture a combo draw is not at all unlikely if we are talking about draws. Also betting more is good because it earns more against good made hands, obviously.
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#18
10-08-2005, 02:25 PM
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Re: 2-2-5 NL. I flop quads against a HORRIBLE player.
You should have made a good sized raise on the turn.
On the end, all-in is correct. Especially since you know that this guy has more money left in his pocket. Suerte, Jonathan
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