Not you ace!

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Grunching

I think I fold this on the flop, man that feels weak tight [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].

Think you're beaten on the flop and drawing to about 4 outs, which you don't have the odds to do I don't think.

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That's exactly how I felt: I felt if I fold I am weak tight. Well it's costly.. I think I am going to be weak tight now then [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

--Thank you so much everyone! I love these forums: you get fast, good detailed instructions. What else could you wish for?

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Well just because it was right in that situation it may not be the correct play over the long term. The fact that we both feel it may be weak tight might actually indicate it would be a bad play longterm, statistically speaking.

Peace.

[MrWookie47]

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When someone says "grunching" remember to take their reply with a pinch of salt. They're a newbie trying to get feedback on their opinions.

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Whoa, whoa, whoa there. Just because someone is posting blind doesn't mean they don't know the answer, and just because someone has 2823 posts doesn't mean that he does. Weigh every response critically, no matter who it's from. Don't make me make another pointed Kool-Aid barb [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].

Sorry. I guess I phrased that wrong.

What I should of said was..."take my advice with a pinch of salt, I'm a n00b posting blind in an attempt to improve my game".

Peace.

[MrWookie47]

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Sorry. I guess I phrased that wrong.

What I should of said was..."take my advice with a pinch of salt, I'm a n00b posting blind in an attempt to improve my game".

Peace.

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Aaaaaaah. Lol @ me. You know, after I saw that and wrote my response, I went back just to see who had "Grunching" in their post and didn't see anyone, so I was still left wondering about why you'd made what looked like to me to be a disparaging comment towards new posters. Heh. I had conveniently stopped reading before I got to your own post, or else I read over it.

Sorry, bro. While this post wasn't quite as big (or as humorous) a mistake as not deleteing the "test 20" poll thread, this will just go down as further evidence of my humanity (or insanity).

[RiverDood]

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Grunching

I think I fold this on the flop, man that feels weak tight :

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Well just because it was right in that situation it may not be the correct play over the long term. The fact that we both feel it may be weak tight might actually indicate it would be a bad play longterm, statistically speaking.

Peace.

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OK, so now we can finish the analysis with the last piece of the puzzle.

1. If you've been playing tight/aggressive lately, making money and winning a killer pot that UTG+3 is likely to remember, then the flop raise is worth considering. You've got a good chance of intimidating him into a fold and isolating the SB for a chance to call down to the end.

2. If your table image right now is not so good (loose; beaten on your last couple hands), then you have to get out now. A raise from you isn't going to frighten UTG+3 if he has any Ax. It'll be just lost money.

I think we'd all rather be in the first situation. But if that's not the case, it's better to slow down than to spew chips.

[testaaja]

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I think we'd all rather be in the first situation. But if that's not the case, it's better to slow down than to spew chips.

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Yeah it was the second. I think I overplay too much and need to just stop thinking for a while. Oh well I am still learning [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[POKhER]

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Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

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1. Fold after the SB bets on the flop. If three other people wanted to be in this hand preflop, at least one -- and probably two -- have an Ace

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THIS IS A VERY WEAK TIGHT ASSUMPTION.

Now whilst many microplayers (party .50/1 beginner tables LOVE THERE A2o and their A6o or Any Ace).

YOU NEVER ASSUME SOMEONE HAS IT, you may think someone MIGHT have it but if you CONSTANTLY FOLD THESE HANDS.

The good players will note it, and you'll leave alot of cash at the table.

Who says SB doesnt hold Q2o ?

[RiverDood]

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Hero is UTG+2 with [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K
UTG calls, 1 folds, Hero raises, UTG+3 coldcalls, 3 folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

FLOP (4 handed, 9sb):
[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q
SB bets, UTG folds, Hero calls, UTG+3 calls.

Well, what do you say? Thanks.

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1. Fold after the SB bets on the flop. If three other people wanted to be in this hand preflop, at least one -- and probably two -- have an Ace

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THIS IS A VERY WEAK TIGHT ASSUMPTION.

Now whilst many microplayers (party .50/1 beginner tables LOVE THERE A2o and their A6o or Any Ace).

YOU NEVER ASSUME SOMEONE HAS IT, you may think someone MIGHT have it but if you CONSTANTLY FOLD THESE HANDS.

The good players will note it, and you'll leave alot of cash at the table.

Who says SB doesnt hold Q2o ?

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Careful. I didn't say you have to fold this hand at the flop. I said you've got two choices: fold or raise, hoping to push out UTG+3 and isolate against the SB. I'd try the flop raise if I thought my table image was good enough to intimidate UTG+3 into a fold.

I'm not sure what your preferred line here is. Bear in mind that you've now got middle pair. If you'd like to try a random assortment of call/bet/raise all the way to the river and see how it holds up in a multiway pot, I guess you can. But as the rest of the thread establishes, that's usually a pretty good way to spew chips.

More important, a fold here actually is not bad at all for Hero's table image. If people believe Hero is raising preflop with borderline hands and then turning tail when an A shows up, Hero should be able to make a lot of money with AK, AQ or AJ in subsequent orbits.

[Roadstar]

Any reads?

Without reads, I'll try to be brave and propose this:

Raise on the flop see what happens.

If 3 bet, you smack the computer screen and call, fold turn UI

If just called, you're probably going to be checked to, take the free card. You are slightly more likely to be behind and you're not too worried about the free card because you have 2nd best pair (not worried about overcards because the A is out) - altho you could be giving mr. flush draw a free river.

If donked (bet into again), fold.

At the river, you could make a sanity call if bet into but consider betting if checked to you again.

anyone like this line?

[deception5]

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2. Raise the SB's flop bet. Hope that UTG+3 has an A-small and is tight/weak enough to fold it, certain that he's outkicked

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Keep in mind UTG+3 cold called preflop. If he has ace/small he's seeing the river with it more than likely.