LIVE! 8-16 hand. AQs - Page 2

Bob T. · #1 02-26-2005, 03:35 PM

Well, the flop check was suspicious, and I couldn't stand it after the turn check, and I bet. The button called, and then the BB checkraised. I thougt about it for a while, and decided that it felt like a slowplayed set, so I laid it down. The button called again, and the river blanked off. The BB bet, and the button folded AK. PokerBob gets at least half credit for getting the button's hand right.

PokerBob · #2 02-26-2005, 03:39 PM

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Well, the flop check was suspicious, and I couldn't stand it after the turn check, and I bet. The button called, and then the BB checkraised. I thougt about it for a while, and decided that it felt like a slowplayed set, so I laid it down. The button called again, and the river blanked off. The BB bet, and the button folded AK. PokerBob gets at least half credit for getting the button's hand right.

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This is a skill I am sorely lacking, as I highy doubt I could dump TPTK there. Do you call down if the pot is larger? Does not button's presence give you enough overlay to call?

sthief09 · #3 02-26-2005, 05:19 PM

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Well, the flop check was suspicious, and I couldn't stand it after the turn check, and I bet. The button called, and then the BB checkraised. I thougt about it for a while, and decided that it felt like a slowplayed set, so I laid it down. The button called again, and the river blanked off. The BB bet, and the button folded AK. PokerBob gets at least half credit for getting the button's hand right.

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This is a skill I am sorely lacking, as I highy doubt I could dump TPTK there. Do you call down if the pot is larger? Does not button's presence give you enough overlay to call?

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I really wouldn't lose sleep over it

MaxPower · #4 02-26-2005, 03:48 PM

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Well, the flop check was suspicious, and I couldn't stand it after the turn check, and I bet. The button called, and then the BB checkraised. I thougt about it for a while, and decided that it felt like a slowplayed set, so I laid it down. The button called again, and the river blanked off. The BB bet, and the button folded AK. PokerBob gets at least half credit for getting the button's hand right.

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I assume he didn't show. If the BB had just bet his hand he would have won a lot more money from you and the other guy. That would be the most deceptive way to play it.

PokerBob · #5 02-26-2005, 03:54 PM

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After grinding out the 10,000 FPPs to clear the full tilt bonus, I decided to play a little live poker for a change.

CP 8-16 game. Wow these guys are loose and passive preflop. I don't think you can find an online .50/1.00 game this loose, or this passive, I think that most flops were seen by 6 players for one bet. The BB, and I are the two exceptions, and for the most part, we are the only preflop raisers, unless someone picks up AA, KK, or AK. So on to the hand.

I open raise in the CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], the button a reasonable player who plays passively preflop coldcalls, the SB folds, and the BB threebets, and we both call.

Flop Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB checks, I check, and the button checks.

Turn, 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] BB checks, I bet, the button calls, BB checkraises, and it is back to me....Your play?

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....the more I hate this fold. When the action is back to us, the pot is 8.75 BB. To show our hand down, it will cost us likey 2 more BB's (since button is passive, that is a safe assumption IMO). Assuming button comes along occasionally, I think we can assume that, on average, we will be paying 2 BB's to win a 12 BB's. Which means we have to be good here about 16.67% of the time. I think we are. I like calling down. Blast me if I need it, but I just feel we're looking at a set less than 1 in 6 times, especially since we hold one of the set cards.

MaxPower · #6 02-26-2005, 04:16 PM

I don't think calling down is bad at all. You need to be very sure of your read to make this fold.

I think that Bob can be very sure. If the BB has AJ or AQ his line makes even less sense. Bob's description tells me that the BB is a thinking player. If he wasn't then I don't think we could put him on a hand that confidently.

Bob T. · #7 02-26-2005, 04:29 PM

I got to go now, but I will get back to this later. The pot odds, certainly seem to dictate a call, but I think that my opponent has a set a lot more often than 1 out of 6 times here.

gaming_mouse · #8 02-26-2005, 04:17 PM

The flop check seems very wrong. Even if his 3bet standards were AA-JJ, AK in this spot, you still have:

AA - 3
KK - 6
QQ - 3
JJ - 6
AK - 12

So that you are only an 12:18 dog. But given that your raise looks like a steal, his 3-bet standards likely include a much wider range of hands, and I'd say your hand is easily good over 50% in this spot.

gm

Homer315 · #9 02-26-2005, 04:37 PM

I agree completely. If I think the CO's open raise is a steal attempt, I'm three betting with a much wider range of hands. He might have AK himself, or AJ. Once the flop is checked through, if the BB were a thinking player, when our hero bets the turn, it might seem like a steal again, and a thinking BB might raise to get our hero to fold. I think he only does this with SOME piece of the flop though, because he probably can't rely on the button to fold to the CR as well. I think his mostly likely hands are AJ, KJ, or maybe even AQ too.

I just thought of something, it may be a little too fancy, and the turn card doesn't help the strategy, but...
What if you 3-bet the turn. If the BB is really on a CR steal, it would likely get the button to fold, and it might just get the BB to fold. If he caps, I think it's safe to fold your hand. If he just calls, I think there may be a good chance he checks the river and you can get a free showdown. You're still paying the same amount as a call/call on the river, but you might have some folding equity on the part of the BB, and you may be able to save the pot in the event you think the button has AK, and a king falls on the river. It may be FPS, but if the BB is a thinking player, it has possibilities. The big drawback to the play is why would the hero check the flop and then three bet on the turn...

PokerBob · #10 02-26-2005, 05:31 PM

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I agree completely. If I think the CO's open raise is a steal attempt, I'm three betting with a much wider range of hands. He might have AK himself, or AJ. Once the flop is checked through, if the BB were a thinking player, when our hero bets the turn, it might seem like a steal again, and a thinking BB might raise to get our hero to fold. I think he only does this with SOME piece of the flop though, because he probably can't rely on the button to fold to the CR as well. I think his mostly likely hands are AJ, KJ, or maybe even AQ too.

I just thought of something, it may be a little too fancy, and the turn card doesn't help the strategy, but...
What if you 3-bet the turn. If the BB is really on a CR steal, it would likely get the button to fold, and it might just get the BB to fold. If he caps, I think it's safe to fold your hand. If he just calls, I think there may be a good chance he checks the river and you can get a free showdown. You're still paying the same amount as a call/call on the river, but you might have some folding equity on the part of the BB, and you may be able to save the pot in the event you think the button has AK, and a king falls on the river. It may be FPS, but if the BB is a thinking player, it has possibilities. The big drawback to the play is why would the hero check the flop and then three bet on the turn...

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