The proposed Palestinian National Anthem

[MMMMMM]

Similar and dissimilar--and both are important.

[Chris Alger]

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But nowhere in there does it talk about revenge, guerillas until death (in other words, martyrdom), spilling blood, etc. etc.

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From the American National Anthem:

"Their [the enemy's] blood has wiped out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave"

...

"may the heaven-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, for our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: 'In God is our trust.'"

In short, our God-sanctioned cause compels us to "conquer," giving our enemies "no refuge" from "terror" or "the grave," as we spill so much of their blood that we wipe out even their "footsteps." No wonder why no one ever wants to sing past the first stanza.

Certainly the most awkward and least singable of the popular ditties, the National Anthem may be the ugliest song ever written by a lawyer.

It takes a lawyer, after all, to manufacture a tale of high victory over a British force that had, weeks before, sacked and burned the U.S. capitol, showing the first family a thing or two about "the terror of flight."

It is perhaps not surprising that our stupidest song commemorates our stupidest war. It started with a dispute over British seizures of U.S. vessels on the grounds that they might be trading with Napoleon, which the testy Americans viewed as an intolerable "insult to the flag." Then-President Jefferson certainly could have averted war with diplomacy or even modest military action. Instead, he chose to embargo English trade, which bankrupted New England, whose economy Jefferson wasn't too keen on anyway. The resulting economic crisis helped fuel election-year cries of bloodthirsty "war-hawks" (the term began here), mostly land speculators (like Jackson, Crockett, and other heroes), eager to use the pretext of British "interference" to steal land from Indians, drive the Spanish from Florida, "liberate" Canada, etc. The upshot was Canada soundly repelling U.S. aggression, Indians being massacred, the British growing weary and having bigger fish to fry, and the U.S. winning its greatest victory only after the war was over, the gory and still-cherished Battle of New Orleans. That battle in turn launched the political career of genocidal maniac Andrew Jackson, "a barbarian and savage who can scarcely spell his own name" (J.Q. Adams), who we still honor as one of few Americans worthy of placement on the currency.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

As I have said before, the entire middle east will not be happy unless they have someone to hate.

al

[andyfox]

"the Israelis are fundamentally more peace-oriented; that peace is a systematic part of the culture from the government on down."

Surely you jest. Israel has constitutued itself as a garrison state from its founding. By the mid-1930s, the Zionists realized they could never win Israel without resort to force, and they have never strayed from that course.

One can argue about whether Israel's or the Palestinians' cause is more just, but that the Israelis are fundamentally more peace-loving, on the evidence that Hatikvah has nice words in it, is ludicrous.

[ACPlayer]

Sorry, MMMMMM, but I am busy travelling so would have missed you anyway. I am sure you would have made the games even better.

Oh and BTW next week or so I will be at My Lai (remember that little aberration by the US military.) I was reminded about it by events of the last 10 days or so. As I recall after lots of investigation one officer was given life imprisonment as a sentence but served no jail time. Lets hope this investigation is a little more transparent.

For now I will enjoy the Mekong Delta and the offerings of Ho Chi Minh City. I do need someplace to spend my winnings.

[ACPlayer]

Perhaps the Israeli Anthem is peaceloving in its words. Unfortunately the actions have been consistently just the opposite in continually destroying any chances for peace.

It is really too bad that a whole people have been subjected to such intense ethnic cleansing by outsiders who have moved into their homes and then relocated them into ghettos with violent force if needed, that their anthem must reflect their anger.

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Yet they (the Israeli's) have been dragged, against their will, into a perpetual war of survival since 1948

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against their will? I thought it was the Zionists that wanted to create the state of Israel, which is what started all this. against their will?

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not multiple wars, but one war that has run on-and-off for as long as there has been Jewish self-determination in the region

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Too bad the Palestinians never got a chance for this racial "self-determination". Perhaps if all the people who have relocated to Israel in the past 50 years go back to their homelands the war will end.

None of the above BTW, for the weak minded, condones terrorism as a tactic (whether state sponsored or not). To quote Mason - Do you see why?.

Nor does this, for the same weak minded set, does this attack Jews. Again, do you see why?

[GWB]

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Hehe 1812?

There wasn't much to sing about for the Americans after that one.

If you'll recall, your invasion of Canada at Fort York and Lundy's Lane didn't go very well.

After all, I'm a Canadian, not an American.

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Don't forget the whole Canada theatre of the war was just an opportunistic invasion - little downside, much to gain if successful. Canada was just not that important. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

The war was a success from the US standpoint, since what we were fighting for was the right to trade freely with everyone (including Napoleon) and not have Americans impressed into the British navy. Key Events & Causes: War of 1812

Remember, the US has never lost a war.

W

[MMMMMM]

Glad you're winning but don't waste them on a foolish vacation. Move up in limit instead;-)

[MMMMMM]

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One can argue about whether Israel's or the Palestinians' cause is more just, but that the Israelis are fundamentally more peace-loving, on the evidence that Hatikvah has nice words in it, is ludicrous.

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The Israelis may not be more peace-loving, but the Palestinians are, or have become, more violence-loving. Too many kids who have never set foot in Israel are being conditioned to be willing to die for "their" country. It isn't their country if they never lived there in the first place. Those Palestinians who were actually relocated may have a legitimate claim of some sort, but the others--which is the majority--really don't.

Using the Palestinans' reasoning, the descendants of every dispossessed people in the world should have a claim backwards in perpetuity. Well, the world just doesn't work that way. They should stop fighting an unwinnable war and harming their own people. Instead they need to get on with their lives--like every other dispossessed people throughout history has done. That would be the intelligent thing to do--the Palestinians could even come to prosperity before too long if they set their sights on that instead of on revenge.

On a side note: I read that over 200,000 Palestinians chose to stay in Israel when over 600,000 left (1948?). The Israeli government pleaded with them to stay and offered citizenship to those who did. Those who stayed were indeed granted Israeli citizenship and did just fine. Those who left--because the Arab nations which were massed for attack told them to evacuate and that they would be able to return after Israel was cleansed of Jews--ended up holding the bag. How much truth to this account?

[Gamblor]

I thought it was the Zionists that wanted to create the state of Israel, which is what started all this. against their will?

There was no Zionism until Arab raids on Jewish towns in Palestine necessitated a Jewish state to protect Jews.

Too bad the Palestinians never got a chance for this racial "self-determination". Perhaps if all the people who have relocated to Israel in the past 50 years go back to their homelands the war will end.

I will not challenge your assertion that Jews comprise a "race", or even that race is an issue here - after all, many Jews in Israel are in fact Arab Jews. However, if we do accept this assumption, then you must admit that Palestinians are part of the Arab Muslim ethnic group, and if that is the case, then there are 22 other Arab states in the middle east in which the Arab "race" asserts their self-determination. So they have indeed had their chance, and rejected it - either by choice or as a result of other Arabs.

Not that this is a race issue.