Party 5-10 hand.

[biggambler]

I would play all 4 streets the same, except for:

Pre-Flop, The Flop, The Turn and The River.

After 2 limpers and a raise you are surly behind. I would fold.
The flop gives you a flush <font color="green"> Bet your hand </font> ! The turn may give someone a straight <font color="green"> Bet your hand </font> Also you don't give the King of hearts a free look at the river make him pay <font color="green"> Bet your hand </font> .

If he doesn't have the king of hearts on the turn then he doesn't have it on the river, <font color="green"> Bet your hand

[bdk3clash]

So, are you saying he should bet his hand or what?

[The Dude]

1. I'm not calling pf because I think I'm ahead. I'm calling because I'm getting 7:1 to see a flop. Folding here is bad.
2. I would have bet the flop, if I had that option.
3. If someone hit their straight on the turn, they're going to raise me. Then I 3-bet. They didn't.
4. I bet the river. Are you saying I should have checked? I sure as hell hope not.

The reason I only called on the flop and river isn't because I don't think my hand is good. It's because that's what I thought was the best way to get money out of my opponents post flop.

The reason I posted this hand is because I considered putting in a raise somewhere along the line. You've said nothing that's contributed to this thought.

BTW, raising the flop to "charge the flush draw" is a fallacious thought. Ed Miller has posted on this many times and explains why very thoroughly. His book coming out soon should help you quite a bit.

[J.R.]

My gut says you should raise somewhere, but given your bad position and the monotone flop, will a flop or turn raise make more than a smoothcall on both streets? Your hand isn't that vulnerable, so its not as if you mind the MP1 and CO calling and you may get a set, 2 pair of the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] to raise the flop (or those and a straight to raise the turn) and allow you to three-bet.

If I raised anywhere it might be on the flop, since flop raises generally don't get much respect, but the more I think about it the more I like you line as you probably make more calling and also increase the potential for making lots more if you can get a 3-bet in.

I'd have trouble folding to a river raise (unless it was a check-raise from the sb), because wouldn't MP1 or CO have spoken up already with the K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]? Wouldn't the average 5-10 player push the nut flush draw for value on the flop or maybe try to slow down the sb?

[Chris Daddy Cool]

You have the non nut flush, you have to raise the flop, or at least the turn. Actually, raise both if you get the chance.

That said, barring any super reads, folding to a raise would be absurd.

[BaronVonCP]

I think I would have raised the flop. You are likely to get cold called, and maybe even 3 bet. People will not give you credit for the flush.

I understand that you don't want to knock out the other two players, but I think if they like their hand they are calling anyways.

Waiting and having another heart peel off is bad, not because you assume the K is out, but because you don't get any action.

Then you have to worry about whether or not you are winning.

[J.R.]

"Waiting and having another heart peel off is bad, not because you assume the K is out, but because you don't get any action."

Very true.

[MarkD]

Yah, I agree with your thought process on this and think if you are going to raise the best street is the flop as your raise will not look like a made flush by most people. Many people will peel on the flop and fold the turn so I like to pop it there.

I don't think the slowplay is bad though and I call everytime on the river if raised. I'd need a super read not to.

Pre-flop your call is obviously correct and it isn't close (as you assuredly know, I'm just reinforcing your statement).

[MarkD]

This is why I like the flop raise. I also think going for the check raise on the turn was a good line if you pretty sure the 3 bettor isn't going for a free card with the dry ace.

[MarkD]

Sorry, but I think a lot of this post is borderline weak tight thinking and I respect your play so not sure what to make of it but I don't like it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Unless, you are reading the player behind you as being a solid TA player than your reasoning makes a bit more sense. On party people WILL raise the T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] on the river much more than 1 in 14 in this spot. They will also call your raise on the flop with as little as the 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] although the 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is more likely the cut off point. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]