Crazy interesting hand with another 2+2er, 4/8 live

[Hojglad]

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If tehmat had KQ, he should have raised the flop IMO.

I don't mind waiting till the turn to raise on this board. Your equity is going to change quite a bit with the turn card.

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I have KQ here like, never. Huge multi-way pot, huge equity edge. Think about what else you might play this way in an enormous pot.

[PokerSparky]

AQ?

[aK13]

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If tehmat had KQ, he should have raised the flop IMO.


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Why?

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I think we'd like to see anyone holding a K or Q fold. If tehmat raises, there's a decent chance DD makes it three bets, which is a good thing here IMO. The pot is already large, and we want to do everything possible to win it.

Edit: I think we have enough equity here to make it a raise for value as well.

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QJ, QT, KJ, KT are not folding here. K3 and Q3 maybe. DD is not folding AK or better here. Spades aren't folding. I see very little reason to raise.

I also find a very little shot any Tx or Qx hands fold here.

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I agree that QJ and KJ aren't folding, but i disagree that KT, Tx,QT, Qx would not fold here, especially if DD makes it 3 bets. I could be wrong. Depending on if tehmat held a spade, I think we'd like to see single spades fold as well.

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If DD makes it 3, then pairs on the board are obviously not the problem.

I'm thinkin about what you might have.

[Raza]

I think waiting for the turn is reasonable. The turn raise looks fine. River call is good. As for tehmatt's hand, AQo, AQs, QJs, QTs come to mind. I would be a little lost with these hands because the pot is so huge, so calling the flop and turn looks ok. River bet with the straight is good.

edit> Now that I think about it, QTs is out. With spades, you would raise the flop for value, and the ten of clubs was flopped.

Is tehmatt holding 33??

[Shillx]

I don't get it then. If you can't have KQ here then you also can't have AQ or QJ. There is no hand with a queen in it that you could have. It also makes no sense that you would hold a 7 here so the gerber baby is [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img].

Brad

Edit - You can't even have QT here. All of these hands need to raise at somepoint in the hand.

[milesdyson]

i don't see why he can't have AQ. that's precisely the hand it looks like. he calls the flop with his gutshot and overcards in a huge pot, the turn gives him a double gutter, and the river gives him Q-high straight and he worries DD will let it check through so he bets...

[DeathDonkey]

This was at Desert Diamond casino in Tucson, AZ.

-DeathDonkey

[Shillx]

This hand is pretty complicated for tehmatt. Considerations for him...

1) You will 3-bet with a lot of hands (potentially). Certainly hands like 99-77 can't be ruled out here if I'm understanding the abstract in your 1st post.

2) The flop bettor is LAG so he doesn't have to have QJ or even AQ beat when he bets the flop.

3) If Matt does have the flop bettor beat, we don't know if he will bet again on the turn. So if we need to get a raise in, it might have to be on the flop when we think our hand might be good. If we wait until 4th, it could possibly be too late.

Brad

[DeathDonkey]

Ok so its to get me off 99-77? I can dig that. But you gotta understand one thing. Matt has never and will never bluff at me. If he raises this flop, he has AJ minimum, and I agree that is a bad thing. I think the rule that "in big pots when you aren't sure what to do, raise" is appropriate here. As it turns out he would have just built me a pot, but he can't possibly know how strong I am.

-DeathDonkey