txaq007's Inescapable Error

[snowden719]

I think that Txg or whatever his name is still on fine grouds, he can hold all 3 positions consistenly, given the elaboration he gave in his first reply

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
I think that Txg or whatever his name is still on fine grouds, he can hold all 3 positions consistenly, given the elaboration he gave in his first reply

[/ QUOTE ]

but in doing so he gives up on any idea that belief in god is a matter of evidence or logic. He believes in god because of some personal experience and would continue to do so in the absence of any other evidence or reason because the personal experience is 100% convincing to him.

Also, if the only way for an open minded person to be 100% convinced about god being divine is some sort of personal experience, and being a christian requires 100% conviction then anyone who hasn't had the experience is either close minded or isn't a christian. It then follows that belief in the resurrection is not sufficient to become a christian.


chez

[Lestat]

There IS some evidence and depending on how lax or stringent your standard of proof is, a conclusion can be drawn. It's the 100% that is the deal breaker here. Then again...

What I'm saying is that if 100% proof is the barometer needed in order to draw a logical conclusion then we'd all still be riding on horseback and living in a very different world. There would be no planes in the sky.

[txag007]

"Also, if the only way for an open minded person to be 100% convinced about god being divine is some sort of personal experience, and being a christian requires 100% conviction then anyone who hasn't had the experience is either close minded or isn't a christian. It then follows that belief in the resurrection is not sufficient to become a christian."

Not really. You can "be convinced" by taking an objective look at the evidence. The "personal experience" is then up to you. Anyone can become a Christian. It's just a matter of believing Jesus died for your sins and inviting Him into your heart.

[David Sklansky]

"You can "be convinced" by taking an objective look at the evidence."

Then why do you think that over 90% of the people who have IQs above 130 and know math, physics, chemistry, biology, logic, and probability, well, and who have taken an objective look, are not convinced?

[Lestat]

<font color="red"> Not really. You can "be convinced" by taking an objective look at the evidence. The "personal experience" is then up to you. Anyone can become a Christian. It's just a matter of believing Jesus died for your sins and inviting Him into your heart. </font>

But certainly you can see that some people have a problem with that. I'm not saying it's your responsibility but I for one, would need to be convinced.

Left to my own devices, I might not believe a 20 ton airplane could ever get off the ground and soar to 30,000 feet. But I have seen it and there are people educated in physics who can prove it on paper. Maybe I (and all who don't believe) should actually read the bible. I admit I never have even though I continued religious education until my confirmation. Would it do me any good? Would I find anything I might consider proof? And one more question...

Does God even want me to have proof? Isn't Catholism based on faith? Faith is almost the opposite of proof, isn't it?

[David Sklansky]

You're getting there.

[txag007]

"I'd really appreciate if you would open up about the specifics of your personal relationship with God. Explain why you know you have a personal relationship and what about that relationship has convinced you of God's validity."

Sure, no problem. John 3:16 says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life."

The way to become a Christian is to admit that you are a sinner, born into sin, and that you cannot save yourself. By believing that Jesus was God's son sent to die for your sins, you can pray and ask Him into your heart.

I did this because I felt something was missing in my life. That something was Jesus. I pray to Him, and He answers my prayers. He speaks to me through the Bible, through others in my life, through experiences. He's even helping me form the right words as I type this.

I don't want this to sound like the Christian life is perfect because it's not. Jesus is not some imaginary friend that makes every day wonderful. He's always there with me, but my faith wavers like everyone elses. The Bible doesn't promise a perfect life, but it promises life more abundant.

I know many will read this and think I'm wacko, but I'm praying that each of you will open your heart just a little bit and think about the possibility that God exists and that Jesus was who He claimed to be. Accepting Him may be the hardest decision of your life, but it will ultimately be the most important.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

[txag007]

David,

You keep quoting statistics like this, but I'm beginning to wonder whether or not you've taken an objective look at the evidence.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
"Also, if the only way for an open minded person to be 100% convinced about god being divine is some sort of personal experience, and being a christian requires 100% conviction then anyone who hasn't had the experience is either close minded or isn't a christian. It then follows that belief in the resurrection is not sufficient to become a christian."

Not really. You can "be convinced" by taking an objective look at the evidence. The "personal experience" is then up to you. Anyone can become a Christian. It's just a matter of believing Jesus died for your sins and inviting Him into your heart.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I'm confused about what you are saying.

Does your personal experience of god convince you that a divine god exists or do you need something else?

If you hadn't had the personal experience would you still be 100% certain that god is divine?

chez