Anyone have Exact Chip Counts of the Raymer vs. Kanter hand?

[Toro]

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If he's going to call in at some point, just push earlier. Slowplaying KK is a disaster on a dangerous board.

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You're not remembering the hand correctly. Raymer didn't "call" all-in. He re-raised all-in forcing his opponent to call for all his chips on a draw with one card to come.

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Pushing pf would not be crazy.

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Let's be real clear about this... you favor an open push for $2 point something million? Are you serious?

You still haven't explained why he should fold the turn. Greg has explained his read here before. Stacking a guy who is way behind with one card to come is how you win tournaments. Greg plays to win... sounds like you play to not lose quite so fast.

[troymclur]

1. Slowplaying KK heads up is not crazy.
2. He didn't slow play.
3. Pushing would be moronical (yes i know that's not a word). A push (around 2 million) in comparison to the pot size at the time would be a nonsensical move, as hands you beat won't call a push, while the hand that beats you will. By far, most of the time you'll get a fold and win a miniscule ammount of money compared to the ammount you gambled with, while playing the hand (read: not a slowplay) will extract far more chips for far less risk.
4. "If he's going to call at some point, just push earlier" is not sound thinking. Pushing earlier virtually gaurantee's a fold, while playing out the hand and pushing latter pot commits weaker hands (and oh my, that's just what happened!)
5. This is all moot since we have no damned clue from just watching a hand on TV.

[troymclur]

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I would have raised the turn too. Raymer should have folded to the turn bet. He has one pair on a dangerous board. If I was Raymer, I would have pushed pf or on the flop.

I think he played incorrectly post-flop. If he was going to be in it for long haul, he should have pushed the flop. If Raymer was scared of ace coming on turn or river, AT-AK has only 3 outs and will likely fold to a flop push.

The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

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So after seeing one hand in a heavily edited vaccum, you think you can analyze a play better than somebody who was there?

[Toro]

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I would have raised the turn too. Raymer should have folded to the turn bet. He has one pair on a dangerous board. If I was Raymer, I would have pushed pf or on the flop.

I think he played incorrectly post-flop. If he was going to be in it for long haul, he should have pushed the flop. If Raymer was scared of ace coming on turn or river, AT-AK has only 3 outs and will likely fold to a flop push.

The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

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Raymer, should fold the turn? What was so dangerous about the board, the flush draw? I think Raymer put Kanter on a smaller pp. And Raymer thought Kanter was raising the turn because he figured Kanter put him on AK or high cards. Raymer played the hand good, just got outdrawn.

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Raymer should have folded to the turn bet.

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The more I review his play, the more it doesn't make sense.

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[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Walter Pullis]

In my entire poker "career", I have never been, in a single NLHE tournament either online or B&M, as lucky as Kanter.

Have you?

[slickpoppa]

Here is Raymer's account of the hand:

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We are 8-handed, and blinds are 20K and 40K with a 5K ante. I raised to 100K as the first person into the pot, which was my standard raise for that level. Aaron called behind me pretty quickly, and my read was that he did not have much of a hand. The flop was 357 with one heart. I bet 150K into the 300K pot. Aaron quickly called, and I was very sure he did not have a draw, nor did I think he had a big hand of any sort. My best guess was a medium Ace such as AQ-AT, or a medium overpair such as 77-99. I thought he was either taking off a card to hit his overcards, or waiting for another small card before he made a move with his medium pair.

The turn was the 7h, and it clearly did not make his hand. I saw nothing in him to make me believe that he had just made a straight or a set. I bet 300K. Aaron quickly started counting out chips for the call and for the raise. It took him about 15-25 seconds to get the chips arranged. While he was doing this, I was almost 100% certain of my read that he had close to nothing, and was bluffing. I waited for him to say raise and to push forward the chips to legally seal the size of his raise, and then I immediately said "All-in" before he had even finished moving his chips. He got a completely disgusted look on his face, and said something like "I have to call." His raise was either 500K or 600K, and my last raise to put him in was about 800K or 900K more.

Aaron was getting about 4:1 on the last call, and had to make it, but he did not ask for a count before doing so. So, either he didn't care to check out whether or not he was getting the correct pot odds, or he had already done that math in his head when he made his raise. I found his quick interview with Rich on Cardplayer.com to be very interesting. He said he called the flop with the intention of making a play on the turn, which is the ONLY reasonable basis for making that flop call. However, he never said anything about doing this because he had a read on me. He said he thought that the board was scary and looked like a good board to bluff at. It made me wonder if he's really new to live poker, and is playing this event as if it were online. That is, is he ignoring tells, or not even looking for them, and just playing the cards alone? I can't say, because I saw so little of his play that day, and did not play with him on any previous days.

I was glad to get 1.7M into the pot on the turn as a 9:2 favorite, and glad to see that my read of him, even being a player I had almost no experience with, was so dead on. I only regret that the river was a heart. ;-)


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http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

[pindawg]

Kantor made a horrible call on the river. He may have had the odds with one card to come to hit the flush but that doesn't make it a must call, especially when its for all your chips and you'll still have a slightly workable stack if you fold. Kantor

[legend42]

Of all the plays he made in that hand, the river call was definitely the best.