when do i stop?

[utmt40]

I go broke here everytime if he has quads.

Yeah I can't really see not raising till I'm all in or he folds. The quads are so rare that you don't really have to worry about it unless you can get a read on the guy, but like you said he was a new player.

[RED_RAIN]

I would want to go around 16-18 bets easy. I've gone to 11 with much worse.

[Brom]

I think some of you people are much too gung-ho here. Sure quads are unlikely at this point...
[ QUOTE ]

flop Kh 4d 7h
turn 2s
river 4h
board reads k4724


[/ QUOTE ]


However, by the time it gets to this...
[ QUOTE ]

i bet button raises, i raise, button raises this continues untill i decide to call on the 7th bet

[/ QUOTE ]
... it becomes much more likely that quads are out there. As the number of bets increases so does the liklihood of quads. Your hand value goes down inversely proportional to the number of bets and raises on the river.

With no reads on opponents, one has to assume that their opponent at least knows the rules of the game and the relative hand rankings. I've seen it multiple times where two players go at it for like 24 bets on the river with nut full house versus quads. On the end the loser always says "I can't believe you had that!?! What are the chances?" Well, they are pretty good once you go past 20 bets that the guy probably doesn't have some not nut full house, and does have a hand that can contend a nut full house.

I once read a CardPlayer article on this that suggested a 7-bet rule when against competent competition. Meaning either you put in the 7th raise and call and 8th, or just call if he puts in the 7th raise and you don't have the nuts. This player I might not give credit for being fully 100% competent, but at even 50% you should still only go to 10-12 bets. I don't know how you read him, but don't be so quick to assume he is 100% idiot, and dump off all your chips.

[MicroBob]

I agree.

At some point you are better off just calling...and I don't think that going all-in is 'automatic'.


I had a B&M hand where I had AJ and the board was something like AAJK2.


I think we each went 3 or 4 bets on the turn and again on the river...and then I just had to call just in case he had JJ or KK.

We both had AJ and split the pot.


Not exactly the same...I know. But it WAS a really strong full-house and I thought the chances I was beat were pretty slim. Yet I was the one who slowed-down on the river and I don't think I made the incorrect play.
He might have still kept going even with KJ....but my best instincts were that it wasn't worth it to go all the way with it.


I think 7 bets with your top full-house and then suspecting that he might actually have the quads is a reasonable play.
Obviously if it's no-limit then you are calling any all-in in a heart-beat here.
but in limit I don't think that cutting it short at 7 bets is too incorrect (based on your best read of course). As you get to that many bets on the river your chances of seeing quads are getting better and better.

[FlyWf]

Uh, I'm slow, but are you joking? JJ and KK aren't the hands you fear.


I once went 14 or 15 bets with KQ on KKQT6 board with the KQT all of the same suit. I eventually called because of fear of the straight flush, he showed KT. I think I went too far.

on a more imprtant note. where were you playing and what does this guy look like?

[zephed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would have put him on the flush and kept raising. If he had 44 don't you think he would have raised the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no. This is a live 6/12 game. In a typical game like this, most people would never consider raising the flop with a set.

[/ QUOTE ]
He'll raise the turn though.

[MicroBob]

oops.

make the board AJJK2.

I had AJ and was fearing AA and KK.
sorry for the confusion. i'm borderline retarded sometimes.

Just imagine Chris Tucker in Rush Hour 2...ow!

Seriously, I've seen guys reraise like this with worse. Maybe 15-16 bets? Did you ask him what he had? =)

I've seen a lady do this at a 4-8 table with QQ (board Q J T x x rainbow) against a known 20-40 player who was just waiting for a seat. And when it was done, she thought she had the nuts (??) Also had a friend do the same thing in a home game with an entirely beatable hand.

Jamon! Jamon Lee.....

ScottieK