Does a Better Player Play This Differently?

[Alex/Mugaaz]

How could calling ever be better than raising this turn? With the best hand you can get more in, you can protect against some draws, and if you're behind you will probably pay the same, the times you end up getting 3bet are probably countered by the time you flush up and get them to make a crying call they wouldnt have if the pot was smaller.

[Alex/Mugaaz]

I would almost always raise this turn and since the sb check the river I'm almost definitely going to call. If he checkraises this river you're completely dead.

[rory]

raise the turn.

you might have the best hand and if you get 3 bet, oh well, that is life and you have outs. got to try to make the SB fold in this huge pot.

[Schneids]

Raise the turn, bet the river. By this point if he's decent it's quite likely he slows down with AA, and is definitely paying off with some worse hands. I think he's got TT a lot here too.

What I'm wondering though is if I'm villain and I have AA and you raise me on the turn, should I be 3-betting you given that I just said he should be paying off with worse hands. If villain should be paying off with QQ or TT, that should logically mean that he's beating enough hands with AA that 3-betting the turn with AA no longer looks like spewage. However, when this action occurs and I have TT-QQ, I feel like I'm never getting pushed the pot, which means I should be folding to your river bet, in which case if this is true it's better for you with your KQ to be calling the turn and calling the river (or betting if checked to).

So much to consider. For now, I'm gonna stick with raise the turn and bet the river. BTW, I rarely raise the flop since I find what happens for me too often is the blind folds and I get 3 bet. Or if the blind calls after I just call, it's with a hand he woulda called two cold with anyway (and this type of described blind is still calling two cold with AK or AQ).

[Jeffage]

Thanks for all the responses. I called UTG's bet on the river to look at his pocket aces. I think I should have raised the turn regardless, but I've been getting beat up lately and I was pretty sure he had AA. Afterall, I 3-bet preflop, raised and capped the flop, yet he leads again. Would he do that with QQ after the flop action and my preflop action? It's possible, but I doubt it...and I could see getting reraised quite often on the turn if villian has AA (though not 100% obviously).

That said, raising the turn is the play, and it's the play I would normally make...one b/c I could be good (outside IMO), two because I have outs if not and three to possibly eliminate the blind or make him pay through the nose to chase).

As for the flop, I like raising b/c at this point - I can't solidly put UTG on AA yet, I possibly have tons of outs and if I can get the blind out, good, if he comes, good. I'd be interested in more thoughts on all of the above.

Jeff

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for all the responses. I called UTG's bet on the river to look at his pocket aces. I think I should have raised the turn regardless, but I've been getting beat up lately and I was pretty sure he had AA. Afterall, I 3-bet preflop, raised and capped the flop, yet he leads again. Would he do that with QQ after the flop action and my preflop action? It's possible, but I doubt it...and I could see getting reraised quite often on the turn if villian has AA (though not 100% obviously).

That said, raising the turn is the play, and it's the play I would normally make...one b/c I could be good (outside IMO), two because I have outs if not and three to possibly eliminate the blind or make him pay through the nose to chase).

As for the flop, I like raising b/c at this point - I can't solidly put UTG on AA yet, I possibly have tons of outs and if I can get the blind out, good, if he comes, good. I'd be interested in more thoughts on all of the above.

Jeff

[/ QUOTE ]
I didnt comment on your flop play becuz I thought it looked fine. I would raise the flop in this spot almost every time, like you said, the UTG's hand is still not defined, and you would prefer the SB to get out of the hand at this point, but if he calls you really dont mind either. Many times you will be raising this flop for value if the UTG has a hand like JJ or below. I also dont think your flop cap is spewing at all, with two people committed you are making money on this cap unless the villain has specificaly AA or KK and even in this situation your flop cap is pretty much a break even play but you will sometimes be able to take a free card on the turn if the villain goes for a checkraise on the turn.

So if the villain has AA or KK your flop cap costs you nothing in the long run but may allow you to see a free river if the villain trys to trap you on the turn. If the villain has QQ,AK,AQ, giving you a 12 outer, then you make money off this cap since you are getting 2-1 on your cap and you are less than a 2-1 underdog. If the villain has JJ or below or a hand like AJs giving you a 15 outer, you make even more money off this flop cap. So your flop line looks fine to me, and I would play it the same way.

I also thought preflop was standard.

[MAxx]

posting blind.......the flop cap is not optimal....calling the flop 3bet is much better.