TPNK in the SB

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm very interested to hear why you advocate betting here and checking in the situation which Donnie linked.

They seem very similar; 5-handed and 7-handed are both multiway pots, and similar issues (lack of ability to protect hands, lack of knowledge about where a bet will come from, etc...) at play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smaller pot, unraised preflop. Less of a need to protect my hand and more likely that I have the best hand.

[W. Deranged]

Sweet. Thanks.

[callmedonnie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm very interested to hear why you advocate betting here and checking in the situation which Donnie linked.

They seem very similar; 5-handed and 7-handed are both multiway pots, and similar issues (lack of ability to protect hands, lack of knowledge about where a bet will come from, etc...) at play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smaller pot, unraised preflop. Less of a need to protect my hand and more likely that I have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

So on the link I sent you you advocate a c/f? I thought since the pot was bigger it is worth going after? Is your intention to c/f that pot because of likelihood of domination?

I undestand that there is less need to protect because you likely have the best hand, but why do you prefer the lead than a c/r for value?

[elena_elphie]

I like it so far, my standard TPNK line in the blinds in a multiway unraised pot (which is where I usually end up in this situation) is to check and see the action and then:

* fold if there is heavy action such as a bet and a raise.
* c/r a late position bet
* lead the turn if no one bets.

[sfer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm very interested to hear why you advocate betting here and checking in the situation which Donnie linked.

They seem very similar; 5-handed and 7-handed are both multiway pots, and similar issues (lack of ability to protect hands, lack of knowledge about where a bet will come from, etc...) at play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Smaller pot, unraised preflop. Less of a need to protect my hand and more likely that I have the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

So on the link I sent you you advocate a c/f? I thought since the pot was bigger it is worth going after? Is your intention to c/f that pot because of likelihood of domination?

I undestand that there is less need to protect because you likely have the best hand, but why do you prefer the lead than a c/r for value?

[/ QUOTE ]

In your hand I would have check/called. If you are ahead of the other players you are often way ahead and quite a bit of the time you are way behind.

In this hand I bet. The checkraise here is to shut out hands. The problem is that JT isn't folding but Ax is, and those hands are the ones you want to call given the pot size.

If you had J9 and the flop was J75 I like checking intending to checkraise because then hands like KQ will fold and you want them to fold. The checkraise a weak TP hand isn't always because of your kicker; often it's because you can fold overcards who are calling correctly for 1 bet. Here you're not concerned with overcards.

[dark_horse]

when i see a thinking player c/r out of one of the blinds against a late position bettor, it screams of weakness. i have top pair/bad kicker, or i have top pair when the top card on the flop is low. not that it's a bad line, i do it myself.. but it gives your hand away.

[Jingleheimer]

Playing top pair weak kicker from blind hands is something I have a huge problem with.

It is a nice contrast between my K3s hand and Donnie's. It seems that the primary difference is the preflop action.

Let me see if I can paraphrase your thoughts correctly.

Since Donnie's was raised PF, you are saying that this is a WA/WB situation, since plausible raising hands are AA, AK, KQ, KJ, JJ which have us pretty far behind, and hands like QQ, TT, AJ, AQ, 99 we are ahead of. We don't bet there because we don't know how to handle getting raised so if we are behind we lose the min and if we are ahead, this is the only way we can get him to put his money in. However, I imagine that if the bet came from LP, we would want to c/r since the pot is pretty big and this is a good chance to protect.

In my hand on a KQx flop, we don't know if we are in a WA/WB because no one has shown any strength. You advocate betting because it was not raised PF, I might have the best hand, and it would be a shame to check it through. I have a little trouble with this, since we are betting into 4 people with TPNK. We are hoping that no one has a K, unless you think that we are going to be able to fold a better K as we go forward.

This is a very interesting exercise, on first blush this hand and Donnie's hand look very very similar.

J

[elena_elphie]

Fortunately I rarely face many thinking players. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I am working on using this line with stronger hands too, particularly if there is a late position player who is a known thief or agressive. At one point I realized I more or less only checkraised the flop w/ mediocre hands and someone could easily take advantage of that.

[sfer]

Basically, yes, except that I never expect to fold a better hand.