Interesting No Limit Question

[Almtom]

Call
at first i considered raising diffrent amounts, but then i realised that calling is probably better.

[curtains]

A large raise isnt necessary, because as long as the pot is raised at all, the guy with the flush draw has to be worried that the original bettor will raise again (as it's a very likely possibility that both bettors have the nuts), and thus can't call too liberally with any draws.

[KC50]

Piggyback to my response to Wayfare.

IMO it would only be important if he had the Jd if he has another diamond as well.

ANd boy don't we follow directions well?

I think David asked for no discussion (LOL!) didn't he?

KC

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
IMO it would only be important if he had the Jd if he has another diamond as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

your opinion is wrong .. oops!

[RogerZBT]

I think it (almost) comes down to just how sure you are of your read.

If you're only "almost" sure as the problem stipulates, you have to fold. There are too many "if's" to justify putting more money into a small pot this early in the tourney. If you just call, you're giving the flush draw the correct odds to call and that can't be right. If you raise, you're wagering $700 to win $450, with a potential reraise that could compel you to fold on the possibility of a freeroll. Again, not sure of the "correctness" there.

Only if you were ABSOLUTELY positive of your reads (i.e. only a flush draw w/o a made straight and only a straight w/o a flush draw) could I see raising to ruin the flush draw's odds with the added benefit of possibly making the made straight fold on the river if a diamond hits. Granted the probability is not good, but I think that's really the only way to make this scenario work.

Whatever the case, it's early and the MOST you can really hope to win is $450. There are certainly going to be better places to get your money in.

[Bernas]

I would say I am pretty familiar with tournament Poker. The majority of people wanted to raise in this situation and I believe that to be a very bad decision. I think you can do much worse than folding here. I was debating with myself which would be the better play, call or fold. I think a lot of it would depend on the reads that the other players have on each other too.

[curtains]

Both players should "collude" and keep raising the minimum over and over to trap the guy in between, and then finally shut him out once he's put enough dead money into the pot.
If all the players know whats going on, and they realize that two of them have a straight, then raising to $400 is my play, assuming that you can expect the original bettor to continue with the pattern if the drawing hand calls you.
I admit it's a bit absurd but its a way to unconsciously collude without it really being illegal, as there are strategic and logical reasons behind your plays (Namely to trap the drawing hand into calling over and over and then eventually blowing them out of the pot).
If you believe the original bettor understands that the other player is drawing, then I believe the minimum raise to 400 is correct, as even though it costs them 400 to call, they should know that it's very likely to be more than 400.

[Bernas]

Exactly what I was thinking when I suggested fold.
I don't hate a call though.

[Bernas]

Not only is it not necessary but if you are wanting to continue to play this hand, the last thing you want is the flush draw out of the pot. He is the only way you will be making any money on the pot.

[curtains]

Folding is terrible! You are calling for 200 to win like 750 in a split as long as a diamond doesn't come. Folding is completely wrong.