Brand Spankin' New Glock 19

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

pray tell, why is the disarming of the jews so that they were able to be rouned up NOT RELEVANT to a gun control debate?



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Wow...

We are talking about a democratic government in the United States, not a dictatorship in Germany or Communist China.

[/ QUOTE ]


Wow. This really points out how some people don't get it. To me, this is the heart of the Second Amendment.

[renodoc]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry but this is isane. You would rather put your hands in Joe Shmo with a gun than just comply by what the robber wants. The simple fact is that by complying with the robber demands there is a pretty good chance no one will be hurt. By not complying and pulling a gun on him, you are guarenteeing someone is going to get hurt. You just better hope it's the criminal and only the criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]



maybe we should just issue "share the wealth" cards to pontential robbers who can then issue them to their victims without any conflict.


djj, what urban nightmare do you live in?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry but this is isane. You would rather put your hands in Joe Shmo with a gun than just comply by what the robber wants. The simple fact is that by complying with the robber demands there is a pretty good chance no one will be hurt. By not complying and pulling a gun on him, you are guarenteeing someone is going to get hurt. You just better hope it's the criminal and only the criminal.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're absolutely right. Nobody is going to threaten me with a shotgun, and then turn around to try to rob the store. It's a shame the two guys in the example weren't better shots - and weren't carrying anything bigger than a .22. You can bet your ass as soon as he turned to demand the register be opened, I would've put a pair of hollow points in his back.

You're so quick to assume that if you just comply with what the criminal wants, he's going to go on his merry way. I don't know how true this is. Neither do you. But its a scary thought that you want to bet your life on the idea that once he gets your money and valuables, he's just gonna walk away with a smile and a thank you.

And, as to your earlier point about a situation escalating to violence is a gun was involved?

According to a 2000 survey conducted by the bureau of Justice Statistics:

[ QUOTE ]
60% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they knew the victim was armed. 40% of convicted felons admitted that they avoided committing crimes when they thought the victim might be armed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Food for thought. Arm the people.

[BCPVP]

Djj, if you are going to continue arguing, you should at least provide some evidence that those with CCW permits are more dangerous than armed criminals. Here in the U.S., you should be allowed to do something up until it proves dangerous to others. This argument should be reversed. You need to be showing why law-abiding citizens can't be trusted with CCW permits, not the other way around.

[ QUOTE ]
You need to be showing why law-abiding citizens can't be trusted with CCW permits

[/ QUOTE ]

He can't. Obviously.

He's got a backpack full of hypothetical situations, and a bunch of scary what-ifs. But there's no solid evidence that people with licensed CCWs do dumb things with them. In fact, the only solid evidence we have show the contrary.

I'm done here.

[djj6835]

I don't need to show that they are more dangerous. I just need to show that there is a danger. It should be obvious that if you put guns in the hands of untrained people there is an inherent danger. That's all that matters in my opinion. I wouldn't have as much of a problem if people needed to go thought extensive training to have a gun. I just don't see how you can have no problem with untrained people carrying weapons and jeopardizing innocent people's lives.

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
He can't. Obviously.

He's got a backpack full of hypothetical situations, and a bunch of scary what-ifs. But there's no solid evidence that people with licensed CCWs do dumb things with them. In fact, the only solid evidence we have show the contrary.

I'm done here.


[/ QUOTE ]

I just did. Ace showed some examples of people using their concealed guns and a few of thim were perfect cases of people acting irresponsibly in dangerous situations. I thougth I was pretty clear about those being examples of people with concealed weapons doing dumb things.

[BCPVP]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't need to show that they are more dangerous. I just need to show that there is a danger.

[/ QUOTE ]
No. There will always be danger with every breath you take. Life is dangerous.

[ QUOTE ]
It should be obvious that if you put guns in the hands of untrained people there is an inherent danger.

[/ QUOTE ]
Perhaps. But this is an acceptable risk when you acknowledge our inherent right to self-defense just as driving involves a risk even though we have the right to freely move as we please.

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't have as much of a problem if people needed to go thought extensive training to have a gun.

[/ QUOTE ]
Then convince your representatives in your state (assuming it allows CCW; if not then other state's regulations are none of your business) to require such training. This is how it's done in a democracy, bud.

[ QUOTE ]
I just don't see how you can have no problem with untrained people carrying weapons and jeopardizing innocent people's lives.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've seen the statistics for crime committed by CCW permit holders. Your paronoia is not based in reality.

[Borodog]

[djj6835]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. This really points out how some people don't get it. To me, this is the heart of the Second Amendment.



[/ QUOTE ]

How many times am I going to have to say this. This is not an issue regarding the 2nd ammendment. I'm talking about concealed carry laws.