Former Bush Team Member Questions WTC Collapse

[Triumph36]

That's a ridiculous comparison because clear observation shows that it's round. Therefore, it's not 'improbable', it's clearly provable. Whereas what these two paranoid people are yammering about is unprovable, and the product of overactive and disturbed imaginations.

The *only* difficulty here is what Silverstein said, but it hardly suggests the 'controlled demolition' theory.

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Besides the fact that it would mean that you're wrong about something, why does this all seem so improbable to you?

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Uh, because it's ridiculous?

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You know what else is ridciulous? This idea that the world is a sphere? I mean, WTF, we can all see that it's flat.

Bob

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Just for a goof (to all of you conspiracy theorists out there) ... tell me why the report of the independent, bi-partisan 9/11 Commission is not worthy of consideration.

[Cumulonimbus]

I don't understand why you skeptics are even arguing in this forum? Don't you have something else better to be doing? Me and Spears are sharing information, posting pictures, etc... you don't have to read them or respond to them. So why do you? If we're SO wrong, why do you bother? Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that does make sense is that you all are starting to see some sense in this - yet you refuse to let yourself acknowledge something that's "so ridiculous."

Keep in mind, this ridiculous tactic has been used many times in history... (Government attacks own people to start war, make them feel threatened, etc.) I'm sure if some "mindless conspiracy theorists" told those people what their government was doing to them, they'd laugh just like you do.

The main thing is, you all are approaching this in the wrong way. Think of it this way: if there is a mere one percent chance of the government being behind 9/11, doesn't that one percent warrant a further investigation with an open mind? - simply because of the importance of something like that happening.

And there is at least a one percent chance. There's hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people in this world who believe the US government was behind 9/11. Go to Europe and watch their news stations for awhile. They see this country how it really is because they're not blinded by America's FOX news, NBC, and ABC.

So if all these people believe that the government was behind 9/11, does the thought cross your mind that hey, maybe I should look into this "conspiracy" stuff more? I'm pretty sure that none of you are doing that - I'm giving you guys links upon links and all I get is bullshit responses. If you showed these links to Einstein or any other genius, they would immediately approach it with the "what if" mentality, because they know that the conspiracy is very possible. They'd examine all of the evidence and form their conclusions. You people, as far as I know, are NOT examining all the evidence. You just look at pictures I give you and say things like "that's probably fake" or you come up with some outlandish explanation for each piece of evidence. The bottom line is that you all approach this with the completely wrong mindset. This stubborn mindset can leave you in a very closed, isolated world.

What you have to realize is that you are all on the defensive. You have to make up an explanation (absurd or not) for everything we show you. We're not making up the explanations - you are. We have our explanation, and it explains EVERY SINGLE weird happening surrounding 9/11. That's what the truth does.

If you don't want to change your mindset - that's fine. You can go hang out with my stubborn close-minded grandpa, who still believes that black people are the anti-Christ, and talk about the world as you think it is or as you want it to be. But I'm telling you, for your own good, on this issue and others, your closed-mindedness is your downfall. You don't have to believe this conspiracy stuff, but it doesn't hurt to spend a weekend and examine all the evidence. Yeah it takes a weekend or more because there's like 300 pieces of evidence. Keep it real all - thanks for reading my post.

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I don't understand why you skeptics are even arguing in this forum? Don't you have something else better to be doing? Me and Spears are sharing information, posting pictures, etc... you don't have to read them or respond to them. So why do you? If we're SO wrong, why do you bother? Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that does make sense is that you all are starting to see some sense in this - yet you refuse to let yourself acknowledge something that's "so ridiculous."

Keep in mind, this ridiculous tactic has been used many times in history... (Government attacks own people to start war, make them feel threatened, etc.) I'm sure if some "mindless conspiracy theorists" told those people what their government was doing to them, they'd laugh just like you do.

The main thing is, you all are approaching this in the wrong way. Think of it this way: if there is a mere one percent chance of the government being behind 9/11, doesn't that one percent warrant a further investigation with an open mind? - simply because of the importance of something like that happening.

And there is at least a one percent chance. There's hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people in this world who believe the US government was behind 9/11. Go to Europe and watch their news stations for awhile. They see this country how it really is because they're not blinded by America's FOX news, NBC, and ABC.

So if all these people believe that the government was behind 9/11, does the thought cross your mind that hey, maybe I should look into this "conspiracy" stuff more? I'm pretty sure that none of you are doing that - I'm giving you guys links upon links and all I get is bullshit responses. If you showed these links to Einstein or any other genius, they would immediately approach it with the "what if" mentality, because they know that the conspiracy is very possible. They'd examine all of the evidence and form their conclusions. You people, as far as I know, are NOT examining all the evidence. You just look at pictures I give you and say things like "that's probably fake" or you come up with some outlandish explanation for each piece of evidence. The bottom line is that you all approach this with the completely wrong mindset. This stubborn mindset can leave you in a very closed, isolated world.

What you have to realize is that you are all on the defensive. You have to make up an explanation (absurd or not) for everything we show you. We're not making up the explanations - you are. We have our explanation, and it explains EVERY SINGLE weird happening surrounding 9/11. That's what the truth does.

If you don't want to change your mindset - that's fine. You can go hang out with my stubborn close-minded grandpa, who still believes that black people are the anti-Christ, and talk about the world as you think it is or as you want it to be. But I'm telling you, for your own good, on this issue and others, your closed-mindedness is your downfall. You don't have to believe this conspiracy stuff, but it doesn't hurt to spend a weekend and examine all the evidence. Yeah it takes a weekend or more because there's like 300 pieces of evidence. Keep it real all - thanks for reading my post.

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Thanks for the education. Now I'll ask you again ... why isn't the 9/11 commission's report -- which contains a detailed analysis of what happened, why it happened, and what corrections we need to make -- conclusive? Determinative? Worthy of consideration? Why do we instead latch on to internet blogs and websites that have been discredited? Is Popular Mechanics run by the government?

[Sifmole]

I am actually a bit confused about a couple of questions that should be asked regarding the whole "cruise missle" vs "flight 77", which hit the Pentagon thing:

( Note: I may have the flight # wrong, but you get the point )

1) Which airline's flight 77 was it?

2) Has anyone shown evidence that there was a flight 77 scheduled for that airline that day?

3) Was flight 77 the type of aircraft that is being proposed as hitting the pentagon?

4) If scheduled, did flight 77 take off at an airport within proper distance and time parameters to allow it to arrive at the pentagon at the given time?

5) If scheduled, Did flight 77 land that day?

6) A 757 would have a couple hundred passengers, at least a few of these have surviving family memebers with access to credit card records indicating what airplane tickets were purchased. Are these out there for flight 77?

7) Even more basically -- there is a very accurate record of all major commercial airline planes that go up every day; and a record of all of them that land. Do the counts from 9/11 match up? Are there 4 less flights landing than took off? This should be easy to find out. Of course I realize that this number might match and it could be because they "conspiracy" crashed the extra plan somewhere else and it wasn't reported.

And my final question:

If this conspiracy was capable of getting two planes to fly into the WTC, and was run by the government. Why would they use a cruise missle to hit the pentagon and say it was a 757? Really, why? Does this make even the slightest bit of sense? Why not just use a friggin' 757?

[Cumulonimbus]

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I don't understand why you skeptics are even arguing in this forum? Don't you have something else better to be doing? Me and Spears are sharing information, posting pictures, etc... you don't have to read them or respond to them. So why do you? If we're SO wrong, why do you bother? Honestly, it doesn't make sense to me. The only thing that does make sense is that you all are starting to see some sense in this - yet you refuse to let yourself acknowledge something that's "so ridiculous."

Keep in mind, this ridiculous tactic has been used many times in history... (Government attacks own people to start war, make them feel threatened, etc.) I'm sure if some "mindless conspiracy theorists" told those people what their government was doing to them, they'd laugh just like you do.

The main thing is, you all are approaching this in the wrong way. Think of it this way: if there is a mere one percent chance of the government being behind 9/11, doesn't that one percent warrant a further investigation with an open mind? - simply because of the importance of something like that happening.

And there is at least a one percent chance. There's hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people in this world who believe the US government was behind 9/11. Go to Europe and watch their news stations for awhile. They see this country how it really is because they're not blinded by America's FOX news, NBC, and ABC.

So if all these people believe that the government was behind 9/11, does the thought cross your mind that hey, maybe I should look into this "conspiracy" stuff more? I'm pretty sure that none of you are doing that - I'm giving you guys links upon links and all I get is bullshit responses. If you showed these links to Einstein or any other genius, they would immediately approach it with the "what if" mentality, because they know that the conspiracy is very possible. They'd examine all of the evidence and form their conclusions. You people, as far as I know, are NOT examining all the evidence. You just look at pictures I give you and say things like "that's probably fake" or you come up with some outlandish explanation for each piece of evidence. The bottom line is that you all approach this with the completely wrong mindset. This stubborn mindset can leave you in a very closed, isolated world.

What you have to realize is that you are all on the defensive. You have to make up an explanation (absurd or not) for everything we show you. We're not making up the explanations - you are. We have our explanation, and it explains EVERY SINGLE weird happening surrounding 9/11. That's what the truth does.

If you don't want to change your mindset - that's fine. You can go hang out with my stubborn close-minded grandpa, who still believes that black people are the anti-Christ, and talk about the world as you think it is or as you want it to be. But I'm telling you, for your own good, on this issue and others, your closed-mindedness is your downfall. You don't have to believe this conspiracy stuff, but it doesn't hurt to spend a weekend and examine all the evidence. Yeah it takes a weekend or more because there's like 300 pieces of evidence. Keep it real all - thanks for reading my post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the education. Now I'll ask you again ... why isn't the 9/11 commission's report -- which contains a detailed analysis of what happened, why it happened, and what corrections we need to make -- conclusive? Determinative? Worthy of consideration? Why do we instead latch on to internet blogs and websites that have been discredited? Is Popular Mechanics run by the government?

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I don't know.

[Sifmole]

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I am actually a bit confused about a couple of questions that should be asked regarding the whole "cruise missle" vs "flight 77", which hit the Pentagon thing:

( Note: I may have the flight # wrong, but you get the point )

1) Which airline's flight 77 was it?

2) Has anyone shown evidence that there was a flight 77 scheduled for that airline that day?

3) Was flight 77 the type of aircraft that is being proposed as hitting the pentagon?

4) If scheduled, did flight 77 take off at an airport within proper distance and time parameters to allow it to arrive at the pentagon at the given time?

5) If scheduled, Did flight 77 land that day?

6) A 757 would have a couple hundred passengers, at least a few of these have surviving family memebers with access to credit card records indicating what airplane tickets were purchased. Are these out there for flight 77?

7) Even more basically -- there is a very accurate record of all major commercial airline planes that go up every day; and a record of all of them that land. Do the counts from 9/11 match up? Are there 4 less flights landing than took off? This should be easy to find out. Of course I realize that this number might match and it could be because they "conspiracy" crashed the extra plan somewhere else and it wasn't reported.

And my final question:

If this conspiracy was capable of getting two planes to fly into the WTC, and was run by the government. Why would they use a cruise missle to hit the pentagon and say it was a 757? Really, why? Does this make even the slightest bit of sense? Why not just use a friggin' 757?

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Yes I am quoting myself -- I just find it interesting that the rabid "information" being thrown about stopped as soon as simple questions were asked.

[SpearsBritney]

Any answers that we could provide you, you almost certainly could find on your own if you were really that interested. We have done pretty much all that we can do to at least make you start asking questions. Anything from here on in will just be the same old back-and-forth, which for the most part, I've grown quite tired.

I believe that we've provided enough info and links in these threads to make any intelligent, rational person quite skeptical of the Bush administration's "Official Story" about what happened on 911, but spending anymore time trying to convince any non-believers, is just beating a dead horse.

To be quite honest, I've realized that I really don't care what you think.

[SpearsBritney]

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That's a ridiculous comparison because clear observation shows that it's round. Therefore, it's not 'improbable', it's clearly provable.

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I think you're missing the point. These "clear observations" obviously weren't so clear for quite some time.

[Triumph36]

I'm not missing the point. A round world is undeniable once presented with the proof. Your deluded vision of the United States willfully attacking itself in order to get into a war with the Middle East is the product of 'seeing what you want'.

As for Cumulonimbus, what kind of shadow government that willfully murders 3,000 citizens is going to allow websites to state the 'truth' against it? You are the one in a closed and isolated world - you have failed to refute anything put forth in the Popular Mechanics article, as well as answer simple questions relating to the nature of this conspiracy. Would I spend a weekend examining this? Of course not. Worldly truth is hardly worth that, especially when the conclusion that you and SpearsBritney have come to is pessimistic and completely powerless.

You're citing Europe as open-minded? You have to be kidding. First of all, if the United States is so able to carry out things of this nature, wouldn't Europe's governments do the same thing? Or do they magically have a free press and the United States doesn't? Europe's opinion on this is irrelevant - they hate the United States and they hate that they are second-rate powers. Much of the Middle East thinks it's a United States plot, does that give them any relevance? Of course not. People believe whatever they want to believe. That's why OJ went free. And that's why you continue to present easily refutable 'evidence'. The ONE thing that is disturbing is Silverstein's comment. The rest has been adequately dealt with and you are still standing here claiming that it hasn't been.