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#161
04-21-2005, 07:01 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
The bigest problem with creationist are that their beliefs are not grounded in any science so they are almost impossible to "prove" wrong. Science can show a gazillion ways why creationism are wrong but the true creationist can still refuse to believe the evidence because they support a non-scientific theory. Eventually science will come up with amazing evidence which may prove creationism wrong. The same way that science did with the geocentric model.
As it is how do you explain genetic mutations if we were intelligently designed? Did God goof? that seems unlikely And what about the billions of extinct species why would an intelligent God create beings which serve no purpose (because as you have said only humans have purpose) only to smite these creatures out of existence? It makes no sense! 
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#162
04-21-2005, 07:11 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
Are all these cites supposed to prove something? Why not scan them and post or send them to me? I'm definitely not going to the library for them. How come none are on the net?
Answer me this. If the tail is a recapitultion of our monkeyhood, why is it the only one? Why not an unopposable thumb, monkey jaws and teeth or why hasn't one singe human been born with a pronounced addiction to bananas? What's the answer from "real" science? BTW, Scott is an evolutionist. Is she "real"?
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#163
04-21-2005, 07:18 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
Evolution does not say we evolved from modern apes but rather co evolved from a different species. Over millions of years we have lost many apelike traits and this is what defines us as human, just like chimps have lost many of the traits of their distant relatives, that is what makes them chimps. the point of evolution is change! that's why we are different from our ancestors because we have changed. Hence no banana addiction (which is ridiculous to even mention) and thumbs. However we still have many traits that we still share with apes. Our teeth are similar as well as our large brain to body ratio and similar skull shape.
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#164
04-21-2005, 07:20 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
[ QUOTE ]
Real science speaks http://www.trueauthority.com/cvse/evolutionists.htm This is made aware when Dr. Eugenie Scott of the National Center for Science Education was asked about human tails on a 1999 radio debate with Dr. Hugh Ross of Reasons to Believe. Her response follows: "Actually, that’s [human "tails"] not an evolutionary issue at all ... It’s a matter of developmental biology; it’s a matter of what happens when that sperm fertilized that egg, and that egg grew into a baby, and that baby was born. I couldn’t give you the exact precise biochemical explanation but probably at some point where the genes instructing how many vertebrae to lay down in that vertebral column duplicated itself a couple extra times, by mistake. It was a faulty transmission of information, so to speak. And this particular individual just ended up getting a few extra vertebral segments. And this doesn’t happen very frequently, but, you know there are glitches in the genetic material that produce things like this, just as there are glitches in the genetic material that produce people with six fingers. But if somebody was born with six fingers, you don’t think 'Oh no! That takes us all the way back to Acanthostega', with the earliest amphibians some of them had six fingers. It’s not really an evolutionary issue." [/ QUOTE ] By the way, this is from this radio show at about the 27 minute mark. A caller asked, if the Creationists say that there's no evolution going on in higher organisms right now, how does one explain the fact that a human being with two normal parents, all in one generation, can be born with a tail? In other words, the caller was citing the human tail as an instance of evolution at work. Dr. Scott correctly pointed out that that's not what's going on. The human tail is (generally) not the result of a genetic mutation that causes someone to grow a tail. The genes for growing a tail were already there. We all have them. The relevant genetic mutation in humans is the one that turns those genes "off" so that they are not expressed in normal humans. Sometimes something happens during embryological development that causes the tail genes in a human to be expressed. The fact that we've all got these tail genes (which are normally "turned off") doesn't make a lot of sense if we were intelligently designed, does it?
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#165
04-21-2005, 07:21 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
You'll never prove creationism wrong and I'll never prove evolution is wrong. Many things once believed by both camps have been shown false, many claims are still unverified.
[ QUOTE ] As it is how do you explain genetic mutations if we were intelligently designed? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Romans 8: 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God. 22For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now. [/ QUOTE ] Romans also says that death entered the world because of sin. Man is responsible for the sufferings of the world. [ QUOTE ] (because as you have said only humans have purpose) [/ QUOTE ] I don't recall saying this. Can you remind me?
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#166
04-21-2005, 07:25 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
[ QUOTE ]
How can a mindless process or irrationalilty have a purpose or goal? Purpose implies person. [/ QUOTE ]
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#167
04-21-2005, 07:28 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
[ QUOTE ]
Dr. Scott correctly pointed out that that's not what's going on. The human tail is (generally) not the result of a genetic mutation that causes someone to grow a tail. [/ QUOTE ] What? That's not what her quote says. [ QUOTE ] The genes for growing a tail were already there. We all have them. [/ QUOTE ] How do we know that? Dr. Scott says it's a mutation, a mistake, a glitch in the genetic material. [ QUOTE ] the genes instructing how many vertebrae to lay down in that vertebral column duplicated itself a couple extra times, by mistake. [/ QUOTE ] Your "radio show" link doesn't work.
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#169
04-21-2005, 07:54 PM
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Re: Come one, Come all... Prove God doesn\'t exist, I\'ll prove you wron
[ QUOTE ]
Are all these cites supposed to prove something? Why not scan them and post or send them to me? I'm definitely not going to the library for them. How come none are on the net? [/ QUOTE ] You can get the abstracts to some of them on the net. Dao AH, Netsky MG Dubrow TJ, Wackym PA, Lesavoy MA Belzberg AJ, Myles ST, Trevenen CL piegelmann R, Schinder E, Mintz M, Blakstein A Bar-Maor JA, Kesner KM, Kaftori JK [ QUOTE ] Answer me this. If the tail is a recapitultion of our monkeyhood, why is it the only one? Why not an unopposable thumb, monkey jaws and teeth or why hasn't one singe human been born with a pronounced addiction to bananas? [/ QUOTE ] We already have (some of the) the genes for the tail. They just happen to be "turned off" normally. We no longer have genes for unopposable thumbs or monkey jaws. There's nothing there to turn on. But the appearance of a tail is not the only atavism that occasionally appears in humans. "Werewolf syndrome" (being covered in fur) is another. Multiple nipples may be another. [ QUOTE ] BTW, Scott is an evolutionist. Is she "real"? [/ QUOTE ] I don't think she's a biologist, but I'm not sure. In any event, I've never found her to be very impressive.
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