GREG RAYMER= OVERATTED ON 2+2??

[AngryCola]

Hey, they are YOUR arguments. If you aren't going to stand up for the crap you are spewing, how do you expect to be taken seriously? Oh, and tomato/tomatoe? You accused him of something he had already admitted was true in the post you were replying to.

If you don't even know what the hell it is the person ACTUALLY SAID in the post you are replying to, how can anybody think you are nothing but a joke?

Having some weird ideas is nothing new, but you might consider backing them up with facts and actually paying attention to what you are responding to.

Anything less is just mindless.

Actually...I'm not surprised. Nevermind.

[RogerZBT]

Do you know what a "dominated hand" is?

[silversurfer]

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RGP anyone?


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You belong there? Now?

[slogger]

And that's saying a lot!

He's arguing with a world champion of poker and using a basic poker term that he does not know the meaning of [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img](while 90% of the regular posters on this forum, most without the qualifications to properly criticize Greg's play, understand this same term implicitly).

Truly funny stuff! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[jrock901]

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He apparently picked the just-shut-up option. But only with respect to this post. Of course, the truth is he absolutely cannot come up with the 5 hands, because they don't exist. They don't exist on the TV show, and they don't exist even if he could go back in time and see every hand I played.

While it is almost a statistical certainty that I played at least 5 hands that were dominated throughout the event, these were not hands where the pot became significant, and I caught a lucky river card after putting in a lot of money. However, I very much doubt we will ever hear Desmond Diarrhea (or something like that) admit he was wrong.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)


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Now, this is a good example of your lying nature. Or your stupidity, you tell us.

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i'm not judging his play based on the hands i saw him luck out on in the WSOP ME (i saw at least 5 that were dominated preflop and at least two won on the river).

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I want you to state EXACTLY what hands these were. I put two bad beats on a player during the entire length of the WSOP. I got lucky to knock out McClain with TT vs. his AA, and lucky again with AT against Mattias' AK. That was it. Every other time I caught a lucky card on somebody, I did it BEFORE most of the money went in, not after. Every big pot I played, the money went in on a coin toss, or the money went in when I was the big favorite. Seriously, you're just pulling this 5-dominated-hands lie out of your a*s, or your memory sucks.

I don't know why you have this vendetta against me, and I don't care. Either name the 5 hands card-for-card and against what opponent, or admit you're wrong, or just shut up.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

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first off, i have a life outside of 2+2, so please forgive me Your Highness for not responding back to you in a timely fashion. it's funny how i have never said a bad word about you nor ever resorted to calling you any kind of negative name, yet for someone who is supposed to be so high exalted and professional...Desmond Diarrhea? c'mon. sure someone who is smart and talented enough to achieve the lofty position of patent attorney can at least come with something more funny and original.

i'll admit, i was wrong about the five dominated hands. no problem. it's been awhile since i saw the final table. i should have used 'coinflips'. however, your memory must be a little shaky too if you're trying to past off to the 2+2 public that it's a statistical certainty that you played at least 5 hands that were dominated throughout the whole tournament. (4) were at the final table alone:

Michael McClain busted with A A against your 10 10
Mattias Andersson busted with A K against your A 10
Josh Arieh busted with 9 9 against your A Q

the fourth was your A K against Al Krux's 6 6 all-in where you caught a King on the turn and Al caught a 6 on the river to stay alive. now although 6 6 is a small favorite over A K (very close to 50/50) it's still dominated. of course i expected you to make that call, but my point was about dominated hands, regardless of whether it's a slight dog or a huge dog.

there were also two more significant close hands in which you were the favorite:

Al's all-in with A 9 v.s. your A Q on a flop with an Ace
Glenn Hughes i think he either had K 10 or K Q against your
5 5.

so i doubt very seriously that you avoided less than 5 dominated hands, whatever the dynamics of the hand or the money involved, throughout the whole tournament. it's very clear you were involved in quite a few lucky situations, which IMHO, had nothing to do with your superior skill and play. out of the nine finalists you busted out (5), not including David when you both had fullhouses.

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ROTFLMFAO!!! Just stop...please stop....my sides hurt.

[Drac]

I'm late to the battle but I'll lob a couple of my own shells now. Is there a bias toward Raymer on these boards? I certainly think so. Is this a bad thing? Not as far as I can tell. Is it understandable? I think it is. I remember when I was a lurker/noob on these boards being very impressed with one or two posters every time I read what they said. Fossilman was the number one guy on my list of "good information poster". I thought it was cool that he was in the main event at the WSOP and I followed his progress on these boards. When he won it was kind of like the hometown kid hitting it big. I knew who he was (by name and writings only) before he was a celebrity. If he could do that well maybe there were more posters on 2+2 that were top level players that I could learn from. I don't carry a torch for Greg or sing his praises on a daily basis but I was glad he won the big one and would defend him against those that want to claim it was JUST luck that he won.

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first off, i have a life outside of 2+2, so please forgive me Your Highness for not responding back to you in a timely fashion. it's funny how i have never said a bad word about you nor ever resorted to calling you any kind of negative name, yet for someone who is supposed to be so high exalted and professional...Desmond Diarrhea? c'mon. sure someone who is smart and talented enough to achieve the lofty position of patent attorney can at least come with something more funny and original.

i'll admit, i was wrong about the five dominated hands. no problem. it's been awhile since i saw the final table. i should have used 'coinflips'. however, your memory must be a little shaky too if you're trying to past off to the 2+2 public that it's a statistical certainty that you played at least 5 hands that were dominated throughout the whole tournament. (4) were at the final table alone:

Michael McClain busted with A A against your 10 10
Mattias Andersson busted with A K against your A 10
Josh Arieh busted with 9 9 against your A Q

the fourth was your A K against Al Krux's 6 6 all-in where you caught a King on the turn and Al caught a 6 on the river to stay alive. now although 6 6 is a small favorite over A K (very close to 50/50) it's still dominated. of course i expected you to make that call, but my point was about dominated hands, regardless of whether it's a slight dog or a huge dog.

there were also two more significant close hands in which you were the favorite:

Al's all-in with A 9 v.s. your A Q on a flop with an Ace
Glenn Hughes i think he either had K 10 or K Q against your
5 5.

so i doubt very seriously that you avoided less than 5 dominated hands, whatever the dynamics of the hand or the money involved, throughout the whole tournament. it's very clear you were involved in quite a few lucky situations, which IMHO, had nothing to do with your superior skill and play. out of the nine finalists you busted out (5), not including David when you both had fullhouses.

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I'm willing to admit my bias goes the other way as well. Any time I see a post by desdia I go into it expecting him to come off as less than knowledgeable. It's so nice to see him prove he knows so little. Posting on a poker site and you don't even understand one of the most basic terms of the game. Thanks for the laugh des! You always spout off about having to back up your words where you come from. How do you back something like this up?

[Drac]

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All this does/did not make Raymer a worlclass player...and quite frankly he isnt one. Both Williams and Arieh have exceeded Raymer in successes since the WSOP but threads keep popping up discrediting their play and belittling their ability.

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I haven't read the Williams thread so I can't comment on people going after his play. I will say that the numerous threads I have read about Arieh talk about him bieng a tool, not a bad poker player. Raymer spoke highly of Arieh's ability and he has a bracelet so he must have some skill. Still a total tool.

[Easy E]

and look up the word "dominated" as it applies to poker

if you're trying to past off to the 2+2 public that it's a statistical certainty that you played at least 5 hands that were dominated throughout the whole tournament. (4) were at the final table alone:

Michael McClain busted with A A against your 10 10
Mattias Andersson busted with A K against your A 10
Josh Arieh busted with 9 9 against your A Q

the fourth was your A K against Al Krux's 6 6 all-in where you caught a King on the turn and Al caught a 6 on the river to stay alive. now although 6 6 is a small favorite over A K (very close to 50/50) <font color="blue"> it's still dominated

[AngryCola]

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How do you back something like this up?

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By just shrugging it off as if you are foolish to even bring up such an insignificant point. Basically, he doesn't back it up. Like this:

Desdia:
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*cough* tomato, tomatoe. you can't be serious. did this even warrant such pennyanney reply?

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[zaxx19]

Thats a good point ...grrr i hate when people make sense in criticizing my posts....lol This is actually out of 200+ posts err whatever one of the best reasoned responses, good post and good point. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]