Whats the best way to read women?

[Mac]

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Snowball, print out Hobbes post. If all else fails you are to tell her about this thread and show her his post with the words "I guess I thought you would be an exception". It will probably do more harm than good but it does add some extra outs if you are otherwise drawing dead.

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are you looking for her to throw a restraining order on the poor guy? This is just horrible advice. If Snowball missed the boat, there's always the shot she would hook him up with one of her less attractive friends down the road (that's really the only thing the friend thing buys you). No need to make yourself look like a psycho, though..

Hobbes - give the kid a break, a lot of what you say is right, but asking her out is ultimately character building and should be encouraged. Also, congrats on the hot wife.

- MAC

[Peter666]

You assume I haven't been excommunicated already.

And to the OP, don't put this woman on a pedastool. If she is as neat as you claim and single at 26, I am sure half the men in the state know her intimately. This will come back to haunt you.

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Hobbes - give the kid a break, a lot of what you say is right, but asking her out is ultimately character building and should be encouraged. Also, congrats on the hot wife.

- MAC

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I actually recommended that the guy ask her out, even though I didn't think she'd say yes. And I recommended it based on the same idea that it's good practice and builds character.

My intention is not to bash Snowball. My irritation is with the advice he is getting from some of the other posters. It may be well-intentioned, but it's destructive.

My advice here would be to stop overthinking things, stop waiting for the perfect opportunity, and just ask her out in a straightforward manner. Make sure she knows it's a date, not a friendly get together.

My more general advice for this particular individual is to understand that there is an opportunity cost involved with focusing all your attention on pursuing one female. Every moment spent worrying about this one woman is a potentially lost opportunity with another. College campuses are full of attractive women. They may not all be 10's, but if you take the time to really observe, it's amazing how good qualities you missed when looking for perfection become evident when you look a little closer.

Yes, I think there may be a confidence issue here, but it won't be solved by encouraging our young hero to pursue someone who is almost impossible to obtain. That would be like telling a poker newbie to jump into a ring game with Doyle Brunson and TJ Cloutier.

The way to overcome shyness with women is with practice. And the nice thing is, just like with poker, you can always start small. Flirt with the middle aged married waitress over breakfast. Chat it up with the homely, overweight checkout girl at the supermarket.

Think I'm kidding? I'm not. It's about obtaining a comfort level with women. Once you're comfortable with women you wouldn't consider, you can move up to women that you would like to ask out.

And thanks on the wife. We just found out this weekend that she's pregnant. It'll be our first. I was thinking just today that all none of this attractiveness stuff matters outside of the early dating process. I didn't marry my wife because I think she's nice looking. I married her because she's my perfect match and there's no one I'd rather wake up next to for the rest of my life.

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Oh, for crying out loud. This is the whole problem with the way this situation is being discussed. If a girl you have a crush on rejects your date offer, it's not a disaster. It's just part of life. It happens to all of us. Enough with the hyperbole.

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I'd swear it was a huge deal to you, from the large amount of crap you've been throwing over it.

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I'd swear it was a huge deal to you, from the large amount of crap you've been throwing over it.

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Is that all you got? Aren't you the guy who's "studied this stuff"? Well, lay some knowledge on me, expert. There's nothing I enjoy more than lectures from first year college students who have everything all figured out.

[Tilt]

So Hobbes, I've been thinking about your offer for a bet, and trying to reconcile why I don't want to take it even though I think Snowball has a good chance here. And the reason is this - the odds you are offering are terrible.

The odds of any two people getting together are not good. How many hot women have you met in your life? How many have you hooked up with? For most people the ratio of (hooked up with) : (become friendly with) is pretty low.

Even so, I think Snowball has a much better than average chance here, despite all your obsessive and overly-concerned points to the contrary. But how does a wager account for all the reasons she would turn him down that have little to do with him? She might be involved, she might be pregnant, she might be in therapy, she might have herpes, she might be moving, she might (fill in the blank).

So, I still Snowball has a good chance. But I can't lay even odds on it. And i am surprised to find btw that you have a family and successful marriage cause you sure have come off like a prick on this thread with your discouraging remarks.

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Is that all you got?

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Nope, I got one more thing:

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

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Buh-bye now.

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Is that all you got?

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Nope, I got one more thing:

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You are now ignoring this user. You will no longer see the body of any of their posts.

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Buh-bye now.

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umm, Im not sure if you're going to want to hear this... but you have done nothing to show your "expert status" on women.

Then, when he responds by saying "show me what you studied" (I'd like to see that too, btw), you change the face of the argument to the only area you have control - ignoring him.

I call BS.

I first thought Hobbes was a prick too, but he is absolutely right about the way this thread has evolved. Poker players are thick-skinned, or they lose their money, period. Snowball here is a poker player (I think) and therefore he should be sufficiently thick skinned, enough so he doesnt need to be coddled.

Hobbes is absolutely right that he might have played his hand too weak (something I still do too often), but he's also absolutely right that there's another hand on the way: just keep your eyes open.

Um, and no offense to all the advice posted on this thread, but... see, there's this phenomenon on the poker forums. When describing themselves, 99% of the posters will describe failure as only "breaking even" but statistically we know that this just cant be true.

I think there's a form of that at work here.

Oh, and Sklansky, Im just wondering, you offered a bet that Snowball would get the job done, right? We shouldn't logically expect that your $100 bet means overmuch to you, emotionally speaking. You are just betting on an outcome. For Snowball to be taking this bet, he is betting against himself.

Hobbes would be betting that way also, not because emotionally he will profit from snowball's loss, just because A)He thinks he can get action, B)He thinks he's getting his money in when it's good.

Why is that so wrong?

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And i am surprised to find btw that you have a family and successful marriage cause you sure have come off like a prick on this thread with your discouraging remarks.

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I call 'em how I see 'em. Would you say someone was a "prick" because he "discouraged" a poker newbie from cutting his teeth in games with advanced players?

And before labeling me as a prick, you might want to review how you came barging into this thread calling me an idiot. I haven't called anyone names, unless you count telling someone he is clueless as namecalling. I will certainly admit to tweaking a few noses here. I didn't know poker players had such thin skin. Perhaps you would be more comfortable on an Oprah Winfrey message board.

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umm, Im not sure if you're going to want to hear this... but you have done nothing to show your "expert status" on women.

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Cool down, bro. I'm not here to prove anything. I simply disagreed with Hobbes, he told me I knew nothing, I told him otherwise. I have no more burden of proof to demonstrate my skills, training or experience than Hobbes has to demonstrate his (and he hasn't yet, either). I'm not trying to sell you anything.

Thing is, we could have had a very cool discussion about all this, but unfortunately, Hobbes turned it into a showdown at the OK corral, insulting anyone he disagrees with, so that isn't going to happen.

I completely understand a lot of guys are very interested in this issue, especially the younger ones who feel like they might remain virgins forever. But a couple of paragraphs in a poker chat board aren't going to help - they're going to get overanalyzed and argued, no matter what they are. For example, I can give you a very basic premise: attraction is not a choice. But that might make OP's dilemma even more agonizing, knowing that she probably decided whether or not she'd let him get in her pants on that very first day of class! (Unfortunaely, it's probably been downhill from there.)

I'm going to leave this thread with one piece of advice for Snowball: resolve to be this girl's FRIEND. Be the coolest friend in the world, but do NOT attempt to seduce her, or to do "date" things. Refer to her as your "buddy." Do friend stuff. Hang out, go dancing, shoot pool, whatever. Ask her about other women you're interested in. DATE other women (hanging with a hot girl will give you mad value in other women's eyes). Above all, don't expect to ever do the nasty with her.

Don't be surprised, though, if one night, out of the blue, she attacks you. You can decide what to do about that if and when it happens.