looting and race... - Page 16

Voltron87 · #**151** 09-01-2005, 01:49 PM

scalf has made a bunch of other racist posts. this is not up for debate.

so youre allowing racist threads? what about those supporting the holocaust? these threads are awful for 2p2s image, which is one of the the things you are supposed to be upholding as a moderator.

MMMMMM · #**152** 09-01-2005, 02:11 PM

I'm not going to squelch legitimate debate. Also please note that there can be a genuine and significant distinction between racism and bigotry. Bigotry is not necessarily dependent on race nor does it necessarily derive from the belief that certain races are inherently superior to others.

Some examples of legitimate (though controversial) questions which may be explored are the following:

1) Are certain cultures in some ways superior to other cultures?

2) Does the book The Bell Curve have a sound scientific basis, or not?

3) Why are American blacks so heavily overrepresented in the U.S. prison system, and why do American black families have disproportionately high divorce rates?

These are questions worthy of genuine exploration.

Please note that the best way to overcome prejudice or racism is to expose its fallacies. In my view that is far more effective than attempting the band-aid cure of merely trying to squelch it.

Also please note that not all comparisons between various groups should even be expected to produce equal results. Yet that is the unspoken presumtion among some who claim unfair treatment (for instance, the women's suit against Wal-Mart uses the fact that women do not receive equal pay on average to assert that discrimination must exist. However that relies on an unspoken presumption that in the absence of discrimination, equal pay would be the expected result. But that is erroneous, because there are also real-world reasons why women do not earn as much as men, on average: maternity leaves, career changes, less hours worked on average).

Bottom line is that an honest and in-depth intellectual inquiry into all such things is essential in separating the myth from the fact.

I do not believe the purpose of honest intellectual inquiry is to be served by squelching discussion or debate of any of the above-mentioned topics.

#**153** 09-01-2005, 02:15 PM

Wow, the blatant racism on this board is beyond me, especially coming from supposedly educated individuals. Maybe the media has something to do with it...

MuckJagger · #**154** 09-01-2005, 02:21 PM

Hell, I knew what he was talking about, and I'm the idiot (assuming it's not against the rules to refer to one's self as an idiot) who thought "FYP" meant "[censored] you, pussy" and not "fixed your post."

Voltron87 · #**155** 09-01-2005, 02:25 PM

these are all things ive thought a lot about, and are certainly legitimate questions. i just dont think scalf wanted to have a debate about it, he just wanted to say something negative about black people in this country. i dont think thats productive.

bottom line, i dont think the questions of "why are black men more inclined to end up in prison, sell drugs, etc" shouldnt be asked, they should, but not like this. thats pretty clear IMHO. its obvious that this thread was not going to turn out well after I saw the title and poster. thats why i think it should have been locked.

the original post is pretty close to the worst way possible to start the debate.

MMMMMM · #**156** 09-01-2005, 02:32 PM

Voltron, I share your dislike for the way scalf framed the issues, and I think it does smack somewhat of bigotry. However, he also made a point or two. And again, the best way to refute something, is to, well, *refute* it--not to clamor for its shut down.

Voltron87 · #**157** 09-01-2005, 02:37 PM

i dont think it would be unreasonable for you to shut down the thread and ask for it to be started in a more reasonable manner. thats all.

i have no respect for scalf, based on this and his other postings about minorities, so im not going to waste my time.

#**158** 09-01-2005, 02:51 PM

The thing is there are good decent people of all races, and scummy people of all races.
White people loot and riot, watch Gangs of New York, which depicts the real historical event of the NY Draft riots in the 1860s. The rioters were mostly white, and guess what among the victims of the riots were blacks. The white mob even burned down a black orphanage during the riots, killing innocent black children.

#**159** 09-01-2005, 04:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]

AngryCola was not justifying it in the LEAST. His point was that there was a clear reason why it was Blacks who were involved in the L.A. riots. Unless a post of his was deleted, I don't recall that he(?) was JUSTIFYING it. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a strange way to see it. The point isn't why were they looting in the LA riots, it is why were they so quick to loot, period. I didn't see hordes of whites stealing TVs after the OJ verdict. And I'm not a racist, so save it.

MMMMMM · #**160** 09-01-2005, 04:24 PM

I'm not going to be shutting down threads just because they are perceived to be politically incorrect or perhaps rather bigoted.

You may not like how scalf framed the issues, but he did raise some issues. As far as I'm concerned, anybody is perfectly free to try to refute his points or to show why they are meaningless or whatever.

Is scalf right or wrong, on various points? If he is right in some of his assertions, what might that imply? Maybe it would imply something different to you than it does to scalf. These are some of the things that could be discussed in this thread, rather than people just arguing over whether or not scalf is bigoted or whether the thread should be locked or whatever. Those latter are the LEAST important aspects of the whole situation. The hard questions are what really matters most here.