"Official" ESPN Coverage of WSOP Main Event: Final Table - Page 16

#**151** 11-15-2005, 11:33 PM

Why are Lazar/Chad/McEachern so bent out of shape about the "Quad aces hand"???

It's not like he (Lazar) would have gotten much action IF ANY on the flop/turn/river...he merely would have won what was in the pot.

Settle down guys...

From what I remember, Lazars preflop fold appeared correct to me.

Very surprised he went on tilt so badly after that hand. And Chad was acting like Lazar would have tripled up on that hand or something, what a fool.

Am I missing something? Or is this just another example of Norman and Lon not knowing anything about tournament poker?

#**152** 11-15-2005, 11:35 PM

**'grunching'**

Why didn't Hachem bet with his pair of Jacks on the flop of 10 high against Dannenman with Barch all in?

I understand the concept of checking down to knock the other guy out but with JJ on taht flop, Hachem needs to fire a small bet out to let Dannenman know he's got SOMETHING. Hachem can't let Dannenman see a free card there, and I'm not just saying that b/c I knew Dannenman had a pocket pair (7's).

If Dannenman hits a third 7 on the turn Joe is in a very tough spot...

daryn · #**153** 11-15-2005, 11:36 PM

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**'grunching'**

Why didn't Hachem bet with his pair of Jacks on the flop of 10 high against Dannenman with Barch all in?

I understand the concept of checking down to knock the other guy out but with JJ on taht flop, Hachem needs to fire a small bet out to let Dannenman know he's got SOMETHING. Hachem can't let Dannenman see a free card there, and I'm not just saying that b/c I knew Dannenman had a pocket pair (7's).

If Dannenman hits a third 7 on the turn Joe is in a very tough spot...

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agree 100%

#**154** 11-15-2005, 11:39 PM

But going along with the way those guys were playing all night, I figured they would have checked it down. They sort of seemed to be playing "nice poker"

daryn · #**155** 11-15-2005, 11:43 PM

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But going along with the way those guys were playing all night, I figured they would have checked it down. They sort of seemed to be playing "nice poker"

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i don't think so. if a 7 came on the turn you know dannenmann would have bet it, and hachem would have probably called and lost money

#**156** 11-15-2005, 11:51 PM

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But going along with the way those guys were playing all night, I figured they would have checked it down. They sort of seemed to be playing "nice poker"

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i don't think so. if a 7 came on the turn you know dannenmann would have bet it, and hachem would have probably called and lost money

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Exactly. If Dannenman hits his third 7, and bets out, Hachem has to assume he's still in the lead and would IMO end up losing a LOT of money to Dannenman who, at that point, would just about KNOW that he had the hand won.

Forget "nice" poker with 3 left. Besides, if I'm Barch, I don't think it's very "nice" that both guys get together and check it down. To me, that's not nice. Of course it's a common play but screw being nice. Hachem needs to protect his holding there.

Only blatant mistake I recall seeing Hachem make. Kanter on the other hand... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Dynasty · #**157** 11-15-2005, 11:53 PM

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But going along with the way those guys were playing all night, I figured they would have checked it down. They sort of seemed to be playing "nice poker"

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i don't think so. if a 7 came on the turn you know dannenmann would have bet it, and hachem would have probably called and lost money

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Exactly. If Dannenman hits his third 7, and bets out, Hachem has to assume he's still in the lead and would IMO end up losing a LOT of money to Dannenman who, at that point, would just about KNOW that he had the hand won.

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This is where you guys are making your mistake. If Dannenman bets, Hachem is going to read that he is behind. In these checkdown situations, you don't call bets unless you've got a very big hand.

#**158** 11-16-2005, 12:02 AM

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But going along with the way those guys were playing all night, I figured they would have checked it down. They sort of seemed to be playing "nice poker"

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i don't think so. if a 7 came on the turn you know dannenmann would have bet it, and hachem would have probably called and lost money

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Exactly. If Dannenman hits his third 7, and bets out, Hachem has to assume he's still in the lead and would IMO end up losing a LOT of money to Dannenman who, at that point, would just about KNOW that he had the hand won.

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This is where you guys are making your mistake. If Dannenman bets, Hachem is going to read that he is behind. In these checkdown situations, you don't call bets unless you've got a very big hand.

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You are mistaken, Hachem could easily put Dannenman on AT or A7 by the turn if Dannenman bets. Or some other high pocket pair (that hadn't made trips, I don't remember the board), that is lower than T.

A turn bet by Dannenman would not allow Hachem to automatically assume his overpair is no good.

Let's put it this way, by Hachem not betting the flop he is potentially putting himself in a situation or two where he would have no idea how far ahead/behind he is on either the turn/river.

#**159** 11-16-2005, 12:07 AM

I don't think Black could have had Ah5h, because the 5h was on the board. I'm inclined to think Ah8h, but that doesn't explain the flop call very well. It does work with the rest of the hand, including his river call, before which he shook his head, as if to say, "I have to call, but I don't like it." Maybe plain ol' A5?

Dynasty · #**160** 11-16-2005, 12:07 AM

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This is where you guys are making your mistake. If Dannenman bets, Hachem is going to read that he is behind. In these checkdown situations, you don't call bets unless you've got a very big hand.

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You are mistaken, Hachem could easily put Dannenman on AT or A7 by the turn if Dannenman bets. Or some other high pocket pair (that hadn't made trips, I don't remember the board), that is lower than T.

A turn bet by Dannenman would not allow Hachem to automatically assume his overpair is no good.

Let's put it this way, by Hachem not betting the flop he is potentially putting himself in a situation or two where he would have no idea how far ahead/behind he is on either the turn/river.

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If Hachem bets, he might also force an overcard hand to fold. If Dannenmann has AK and Barch has Ax, the checkdown takes away some of Barch's outs. That's the whole purpose of the checkdown.

Matusow folded an overpair (QQ, I believe) earlier in the WSOP on a flop where one person was all-in.