Why do Jews Reject Jesus - Part 2

[m1illion]

Do you believe Elijah raised someone from the dead?

[xniNja]

I realize this post is too long, but I have a question for the OP that was already touched upon but seemingly ignored... I buy your argument 100% but feel the same way about the Hebrew Bible. Why buy the Hebrew Bible and not the Rig Vedas written thousands of years earlier, or why dare blaspheme mighty Zeus and the Gods of Olympus, and how could you possibly think Ra the Sun God could have changed his mind on how he wanted to be worshipped?

[PLOlover]

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Why buy the Hebrew Bible and not the Rig Vedas written thousands of years earlier, or why dare blaspheme mighty Zeus and the Gods of Olympus, and how could you possibly think Ra the Sun God could have changed his mind on how he wanted to be worshipped?

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Probably because in his opinion it has the highest EV. Also note that the god of the old testament clearly recognizes that there are other gods.

Also , I mean, have you read greek mythology? Those guys are some capricious and cruel gods. No rain in due season from them.

[xniNja]

I have studied most religions/mythologies (not all) ... yes the Greek gods seem capricious and cruel, but also benevolent and powerful...similar to the God described in the Bible, the Gods described in the Vedas, and similar to my experiences in life. I'll admit I'm not thoroughly familiar with the Old Testament.. but if it admits there are other Gods- then why should it be valued above them or become a new authority?

I understand he may think Judaism is +EV, I was just trying to argue that his perception is based on nothing superior to any credibility of older religions or future religions to come.

[Zygote]

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I have studied most religions/mythologies (not all) ... yes the Greek gods seem capricious and cruel, but also benevolent and powerful...similar to the God described in the Bible, the Gods described in the Vedas, and similar to my experiences in life. I'll admit I'm not thoroughly familiar with the Old Testament.. but if it admits there are other Gods- then why should it be valued above them or become a new authority?

I understand he may think Judaism is +EV, I was just trying to argue that his perception is based on nothing superior to any credibility of older religions or future religions to come.

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Judaism doesn't believe there are other gods. In fact, the religion prides itself on being monotheistic. The old tesament does, however, recognize that people will worship false idols.

BossJJ probably doesn't accept these other gods for the following reasons:

He believes that his ancestors made this choice for him. He believes that the god of hte old testament revealed himself to several million jewish people. These people didn't need to accept other gods because they had direct conformation that this was the one and only true god.

[xniNja]

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He believes that his ancestors made this choice for him. He believes that the god of hte old testament revealed himself to several million jewish people. These people didn't need to accept other gods because they had direct conformation that this was the one and only true god.

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Yea, I got all that. I think my observation that it is no more credible than any doctrine detailing interaction with God(s) from a previous religion before it, or after it, still applies.

[Zygote]

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He believes that his ancestors made this choice for him. He believes that the god of hte old testament revealed himself to several million jewish people. These people didn't need to accept other gods because they had direct conformation that this was the one and only true god.

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Yea, I got all that. I think my observation that it is no more credible than any doctrine detailing interaction with God(s) from a previous religion before it, or after it, still applies.

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I don't believe any other religion even makes the claim that millions of people witnessed god. At least thats why bossJJ apparently gives judaism more credence.

[xniNja]

Virtually every religion makes the claim millions of people witnessed and witness God all the time. The KJ Bible validated its own authority, as the other Bibles do, as does the Koran, and Vedas.

Not only is this is a very weak premise for arguing authority or validity of literature, it's circular argumentation that can neither be proved, disproved, nor argued on any logical basis.

Nothing written can validate its own authority as supreme; it would be a logical paradox.

The only possible conclusion is that either all of them are true, all of them are false, or one happens to be true by chance or actuality, but not possibly because of validation from something written within it.

Edit: I also think it's foolish to believe it more because they wrote that 2 million people witnessed god. What if it was 2? or 20? or 2,000? If you are going to blindly believe what is written, what difference does it make?

[bossJJ]

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I realize this post is too long, but I have a question for the OP that was already touched upon but seemingly ignored... I buy your argument 100% but feel the same way about the Hebrew Bible. Why buy the Hebrew Bible and not the Rig Vedas written thousands of years earlier, or why dare blaspheme mighty Zeus and the Gods of Olympus, and how could you possibly think Ra the Sun God could have changed his mind on how he wanted to be worshipped?

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I've already addressed this in several posts in this thread. I'm not ignoring the issue at all.

[bossJJ]

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Virtually every religion makes the claim millions of people witnessed and witness God all the time. The KJ Bible validated its own authority, as the other Bibles do, as does the Koran, and Vedas.

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You missed the point. Only Judaism claims a national revelation from God. That is, the entire nation (at the same time) heard God when He gave the Torah to Moses on Mount Sinai. As I discussed in a previous post, other religions, including Christianity and Islam, are based on a supposed personal revelation from God. That is, they claim that God spoke to their religion's founder.

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Not only is this is a very weak premise for arguing authority or validity of literature, it's circular argumentation that can neither be proved, disproved, nor argued on any logical basis.

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It is not circular at all. The argument, which you apparently don't even understand, is that only Judaism claims a national revelation from God, and it's impossible to fake. For example, if I said, "last night God spoke to all the people of the United States and said..." You would immediately know that I'm lying (assuming you're in the U.S.). On the other hand, if I said, "last night God spoke to me, and appointed me His prophet. This is what He wants us to do and believe..." That can't be disproven, so that is why other religons just claim a personal revelation from God.

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Nothing written can validate its own authority as supreme; it would be a logical paradox.

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True, but that's not the Jewish claim.

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The only possible conclusion is that either all of them are true, all of them are false, or one happens to be true by chance or actuality, but not possibly because of validation from something written within it.

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You just don't understand the difference between claiming a national revelation and claiming a personal one.

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Edit: I also think it's foolish to believe it more because they wrote that 2 million people witnessed god. What if it was 2? or 20? or 2,000? If you are going to blindly believe what is written, what difference does it make?

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How do convince an entire nation that they heard God speak (if it didn't actually happen)?