Modern arguments for communism?

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2. Law and order = protecting private propery to a large extent.

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So since there is no private property, there is no need to provide law and order? What happens when I begin to suffer from some bizarre psychological disorder and I take an AK-47 and slaughter everyone in the townsquare? Who stops me? There are no gun laws nor any police, since there is no government, but surely there is a need to provide law and order...?

[The once and future king]

The voluntary town militia will stop you, or the some such organistion.

Good luck getting hold of an AK47.

Though the situations were ridiculous, I don't think they were specific at all, but rather, very general. In what way are they specific? Does natural sex drive not speak for inherent selfishness? Does survival instinct not speak for inherent selfishness? Like virtually every living thing in the animal kingdom who fights over mates and territory, are we not inherently animals? Does the history of civilization not prove this?

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In a capitalist system a selfish person gains at others expense.

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In any system, a selfish person can gain at others expense. But a selfish person can also gain at purely the expense of his own hard work, and not to the detriment of anyone else. This is usually called entrepreneurship, and has always existed in society. Your statement doesn't represent a characteristic specific to capitalism, though you targeted it as such.

However, within a economic system, again in a general sense, the "Fundamental Theorem of Exchange", a basic principle of universal economic theory speaks for the exchanges that take place between firms and consumers, employers and employees, etc etc.

Basically, for an exchange to take place, both parties must benefit. Otherwise the exchange does not take place. Selfish people still must provide benefit to another party in order to make an exchange, though one they hope to be lopsided in their favor.

[vulturesrow]

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In a capitalist system a selfish person gains at others expense. Either this is based on a power hungry issue, or a material wealth issue.

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This statment goes right to the heart of the flaws in your arguments in this thread. It showed a complete lack of understanding of basic economics.

[theweatherman]

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In a capitalist system a selfish person gains at others expense. Either this is based on a power hungry issue, or a material wealth issue.

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This statment goes right to the heart of the flaws in your arguments in this thread. It showed a complete lack of understanding of basic economics.

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I'm not so sure you have a realistic understanding of economics. The only reason Donald Trump is able to live teh extravagant life he does is because others cannot. It is an impossible senario for for everyone to live at that level, based on the inherrent scarcity of real life. Therefore Donald Trumps fortune has come about due to the deprevation of fortune to others.

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based on the inherrent scarcity of real life. Therefore Donald Trumps fortune has come about due to the deprevation of fortune to others.

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The Donald's fortune did not land in his lap, but rather is a result of his entrepreneurial effort. Society demanded casinos and he has supplied that demand at the most cost competitive price (we know this because otherwise he would have failed and been driven out of business by now) .

In turn he has provided tax revenue and jobs that carry benefits and paid holidays to the surrounding communities that did not previously exist. In economic terms, he took human labor, physical capital, and technology and has converted it into new output with a substantial "value added" (another economic term).

So, where in this process has The Donald deprived anyone of anything? Furthermore, under Communism where labor is already 100% and there is no central planning entity such as a government, how does economic expansion, such as the creation of casinos desired by the public exist?

Or are you arguing that luxury goods and services, of which a casino is certainly one, should not exist in any way?

[hmkpoker]

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In a capitalist system a selfish person gains at others expense. Either this is based on a power hungry issue, or a material wealth issue.

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This statment goes right to the heart of the flaws in your arguments in this thread. It showed a complete lack of understanding of basic economics.

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I'm not so sure you have a realistic understanding of economics. The only reason Donald Trump is able to live teh extravagant life he does is because others cannot. It is an impossible senario for for everyone to live at that level, based on the inherrent scarcity of real life. Therefore Donald Trumps fortune has come about due to the deprevation of fortune to others.

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You realize that the capitalist economic system is not zero-sum, right?

[tylerdurden]

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Isn't the fundamental role of government to provide law and order? Is law and order of no consequence to the "non-capitalist" class? (btw ive never heard of that class)

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Note that even if this actually is government's fundamental role, that fact does not imply that government is necessary to fill that need.

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Does government not also provide a medium of exchange (money)? Otherwise, are you advocating a barter system? So when I need some aspirin for my headache, how do I get it since I can't pay money for it?

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Again. Why can't you have money without government? Gold existed before government.

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What about roads and bridges? Consumer protection? National defense from barbarian hordes? Are none of these of any consequence to the "non-capitalist" class?

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They are all needs, and they all can be filled without coercive government.

you could make a reeeeeaal stretch and say that government is not totally necessary to fill those societal needs, but regardless, it fills them with incomparably more efficiency and effectiveness, the likes of which is necessary for any modern society that cares about economic growth and the quality of life.

[tylerdurden]

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it fills them with incomparably more efficiency and effectiveness

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Than *what*, exactly?