Why dont you give away your money to poor people?

[wonkadaddy]

this discussion between poker players is hilarious

all these competitive logical minds picking apart each other's pourly worded statements or continuing logical conclusions to their extreme ends. hahahhahah

IMO
1. I like when people brag about charity.
We all influence each other and help create each other's social norms. Bragging about giving creates a healthy competition that can only benefit all. I don't go to church, but try to tithe 10% of my annual income to things i care about.

2. There are 2 basic types of charity, focusing on either direct aid (immediate) or systemic change (longterm) . a lot of the complaints in this post against charity are complaints against direct aid (giving the bum a buck/gov't poverty handouts). extending these arguments to all charity is nothing more than "excuse rationale" from those that don't want to state (or admit to themselves) that they just don't want part from their money. i'd love to hear the arguments against aid that goes to infrastructure investments like schools or clean water (things that we've all personally benefitted from.)

3. self-reliance is great. but glorifying self-reliance into a convoluted worldview that places our complete destiny w/in our control is childish thinking. i'm surprised no one has made a poker ananlogy here yet. if you're born near a coal powerplant you have an increased chance of contracting asthma and being born mentally disabled. doesn't mean it'll happen, just changes the odds for your life "EV", and is completely outof your control. a lot of life is definitely the "cards you're dealt" still leaving a lot room for what you make of 'em.

[AngryCola]

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"I also believe everyone is responsible for everything that happens to them." is a bit gonzo.

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I was actually with him on some of his points before he wrote this.
It's definitely a wild and silly thing to say.

For example, you can't tell me a plane crashing into your house and killing you is your own fault. Would it have happened to you if you hadn't chosen to live there? Probably not, but one could not say you were responsible.

What about a 17 year old living in that same house? He never really had a choice of where to live, but I suppose he's responsible for his own demise because he was foolish enough to sleep in his own bed that night, right?

[lehighguy]

When it comes to really disadvantaged kids in the inner city I have sympathy. They never stood a chance.

But when middle class kids at my town end up working some shitty service job because they didn't study in high school I have absolutely no sympathy. I feel these types probably make up a majority of the working poor.

[lehighguy]

The divide between rich and poor is largely a result of two things:

1) Bad education system
I don't think I need to sell this idea. I'd like to say that is mainly the left and the teachers union preventing serious reform in this area.

2) Bad culture
We have an anti-educational society in the lower classes. I went to public school and you got shunned for performing academically or setting yourself apart. In my private college I've noticed an entirely different attitude. People celebrate accomplishment, especially academic. I find among the more successful immigrant groups it is much the same.

I'm not sure how this attitude started in the working class. Maybe it began with unions and entitlements. In my mom's office (government job) everyone kinduv unofficially knows your not suppose to work to hard. If one person works hard everyone else will be expected to, so they discourage people from doing so. This works fine when everyones on board (fine for them not he company or economy). Many American industries and have been insulated from serious outside competition until recentely. Now that's changing and people need to change thier attitudes as well.

[wonkadaddy]

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1) Bad education system
I don't think I need to sell this idea. I'd like to say that is mainly the left and the teachers union preventing serious reform in this area.


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i luv how zany right wingers recite party rhetoric w/out even attmepting to justify their claims.. if we say it enough it will become true, right?

there are real problems w/our school system in my opinion. the root of these problems has unfortunately escaped both parties and any significant political discussion. 1. FUNDING SOURCES 2. TENURE/SALARIES

FUNDING
we're the only industrialized country in the world that funds schools primarily from local tax sources. federal mandates don't mean much because federal dollars don't contribute much to school coffers. (property tax revenues contribute a large % and are obviously much higher in wealthy areas) Per student spending in some public schools is over twice as high as in others. Equitable school funding seems like a reasonable baseline to start from.

TENURE/SALARIES-- The Left says teachers are underpaid. The Right says too many teachers are bad/lazy (need to be held more accountable). They're both correct. teachers need to be forced to give up some job security. The number of teachers fired for performance once they've achieved tenure is so ridiculously low that there is no way of holding these teachers accountable. But there also isn't a huge crop of people that could replace these lazy teachers because teaching is an underpaid and thus undesirable profession. So we need teachers to accept a tradeoff-- Significantly higher salaries (say 50% higher) for less job security/tenure.

ok, i'm off the soapbox and going back to the poker tables now [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] Thanks to Mrs. Ingalls, Mr. Clifton, Mr. Broderick and all the teachers that helped teach me the math so necessary for poker!

[lehighguy]

My charter school recieved only 3/4 of the funding my local public school did. However, our teachers were paid much more then the teachers in my school district. There were a few reasons:

1) We payed teachers based on performance. Math teachers made more then english teachers. The principle had wide leniency in giving "overtime" pay which was distributed based on personal preference rather then senoirity.

2) We partnered with private business. Teachers in technical fields often taught company employees on weekends and vacations and in exchange we were given free equipment and software. There were many other arrangements with private business.

3) We made our own decisions. We didn't waste as much money on beauracracy as other schools.

[OrianasDaad]

I pay taxes. That's good enough.

Socialist.

[SheetWise]

This particular discussion really deserves a new thread. Teachers/Tenure/Public/Private/... I'm hesitant to start it. I'd comment at length, but feel it'd be buried here ---

[666]

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I feel no obligation too.

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[666]

And because I hate poor people.