Getting desperate for help

[fyodor]

I know a guy who plays HU exclusively. He has a partner and the 2 of them sit in front of a computer together and discuss every hand. They play as a team and split the winnings.

In a B&M this clearly would not be allowed. Online whether it is ethically, morally, legally or otherwise wrong, it is definitely unenforcable. It makes no difference how you feel about it or whether you would do it. Others are.

If you are both at the same table and discussing a hand in progress it is called collusion. There is a rule against it and it is enforcable. I would be very carefull about sitting at the same table as a friend, on any kind of a regular basis, and discussing _anything_ while we are at that table together. Whether you are intentionally colluding or not, it will not be you doing the interpretting of the situation should it get investigated.

[Ulysses]

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That is, I don't think it's right but if other people want to do it I really don't care because they're the sort of observational stuff that isn't a concrete everyone-has-the-right-to-know stuff.

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OK. Here's the problem. One of those questions was:

2) Schneids, I have the King, what do you think I should do against this guy?

Let's say two people ask each other questions like that. Sometimes when the question is asked, the guy being asked will know he folded the Ace. Obviously, he can very confidently answer "oh, I would definitely raise." Anyway, you get the point.

[Schneids]

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I don't care if you never go to class and just get all your notes from a friend, and then score better than me on a test.

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how about if it was a test where you can bring cheat sheets (2 pages of notes)...after the test began, that no working friend of yours is handed a full sheet that has been worked on by 4 people even though he contributed nothing.

is that wrong?

-Barron

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It's ethically irresponsible, which is slightly different from right or wrong... Wrong or not I cannot say but it's certainly resourceful of him since we live in a society that cares more about results than how the results were obtained. I prefer the ethically responsible route for myself but I'm not about to make a stink about it or tell the instructor (who will probably do nothing). I think this one is entirely up to each own's prerogative; which I guess means I'm half-assed saying it's ok.

[DcifrThs]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I don't care if you never go to class and just get all your notes from a friend, and then score better than me on a test.

[/ QUOTE ]

how about if it was a test where you can bring cheat sheets (2 pages of notes)...after the test began, that no working friend of yours is handed a full sheet that has been worked on by 4 people even though he contributed nothing.

is that wrong?

-Barron

[/ QUOTE ]

It's ethically irresponsible, which is slightly different from right or wrong... Wrong or not I cannot say but it's certainly resourceful of him since we live in a society that cares more about results than how the results were obtained. I prefer the ethically responsible route for myself but I'm not about to make a stink about it or tell the instructor (who will probably do nothing). I think this one is entirely up to each own's prerogative; which I guess means I'm half-assed saying it's ok.

[/ QUOTE ]

wow, i totally agree and come to a different actionable conclusion. i think its wrong IMO!! and by wrong i do mean ethically irresponsible. so i wouldn't do it.

same with the talkig while a hand is in progress...if others want to do it i can't enforce it...but i CAN simply not do it.

-Barron

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is, I don't think it's right but if other people want to do it I really don't care because they're the sort of observational stuff that isn't a concrete everyone-has-the-right-to-know stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Here's the problem. One of those questions was:

2) Schneids, I have the King, what do you think I should do against this guy?

Let's say two people ask each other questions like that. Sometimes when the question is asked, the guy being asked will know he folded the Ace. Obviously, he can very confidently answer "oh, I would definitely raise." Anyway, you get the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would feel it is my ethical responsibility, in that case, if this ever happened and someone on IM asked me that Q, to answer back, "I don't know. Do what you think."

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
That is, I don't think it's right but if other people want to do it I really don't care because they're the sort of observational stuff that isn't a concrete everyone-has-the-right-to-know stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK. Here's the problem. One of those questions was:

2) Schneids, I have the King, what do you think I should do against this guy?

Let's say two people ask each other questions like that. Sometimes when the question is asked, the guy being asked will know he folded the Ace. Obviously, he can very confidently answer "oh, I would definitely raise." Anyway, you get the point.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would feel it is my ethical responsibility, in that case, if this ever happened and someone on IM asked me that Q, to answer back, "I don't know. Do what you think."

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, but that's weak. If someone always gives that answer to that question, that's fine. But if that's a question that someone typically answers with a recommendation and then all of a sudden he comes up with that response this one time, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what he must have had.

I don't really want to argue this specific point with you, as I suspect you and I pretty much agree on where the lines should be drawn. My main point is simply that even when people have the best intentions, it's very easy to "accidentally" collude.

[Emperor]

Don't argue with the ignorant, they just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ie. cheating at online boggle prop bets...

This is why I only have 300 posts, even though I have been reading 2+2 since day 1.

[surfdoc]

Is there any ethical problem or is it considered cheating to invite a friend to come sit in a very juicy game granted that there is no discussion during hands?

[skp]

Yes, I agree with El D. It's got to be hard not to give out info (that would fall into the collusion basket) when you have got IM going in these spots with other players. Personally, I think all you cats should stop IM'ing each other while playing. Come on the board here and discuss hands afterwards if you want.

I should say though that I have no idea how you guys can play 4-6 games while also IM'ing at the same time. Multitaskers extraordinaire.

[skp]

good point.