Why Do Jews Reject Jesus?

[bossJJ]

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Also from a mathematical “statistical or probability” viewpoint; it can be surmised that that Jesus did meet the requirements.

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From a Jewish POV, it makes no sense to view someone as the messiah "from a mathematical “statistical or probability” viewpoint". The messiah is the one who actually fulfills the messianic prophecies, not the most popular candidate.

Christianity survived and thrived because of all the gentile converts and their descendants. Had it been a Jewish-only group, it would have died out long ago along with the Sadduccees and Essenes. Or at best it may have survived as an extremely small minority, like the Karaites of today.

There have been other messianic contenders in the past, the two most prominent being Bar Kochba and Shabetai Zvi. During their respective lifetimes, a significant percentage of the Jews believed/hoped that he was the messiah (possibly even the majority). To a Jew, believing someone is the messiah doesn't mean worshipping him as God or stopping Torah observance. Nothing would change in their lives initially, but if the person is the messiah then it means that the messianic age of world peace is right around the corner. So they were hopeful.

However, when they failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies, their followers had to acknowledge that he could not have been the messiah. There was a tiny group that continued to follow Shabetai Zvi and still exists in Turkey. But the vast majority of Jews realized that he wasn't the messiah.

Had Christianity been only Jews, it too would have died out after jesus' death, because Jews are smart enough to realize that anyone who didn't fulfill a single messianic prophecy obviously can't be the messiah. However, Paul made Jesus into a pagan god-man/savior that was familiar and popular with pagans, and the early Christians very actively recruited converts. They were promised eternal life, and no need to get circumcised. So Christianity became very popular. They were illiterate pagans with no understanding of what the real messiah is supposed to be or do (and most remained illiterate until a few hundred years ago), so that is why they continue to follow a false messiah.

[bossJJ]

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These verses aren’t being taken out of context, as there are no surrounding verses that give a contrasting view or portray Jews in a favorable light.


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All of these verses are taken woefully out of context. Not one of them addresses Israel or makes a comment on Jews in general. There are all directed toward specific people, generally specific Scribes and Pharisees who are opposing Jesus, even trying to kill him.

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These statements are outright false. First, many of the verses speak of "the Jews", not specific subgroups of Jews. I showed the verses that spell out at that it is ALL Jews (who choose to remain Jews) that are guilty. These verses don't have other verses arround them explaining that it is only a few Jews. On the contrary, the surrounding verses explain that it is because of their Jewish beliefs, so they would apply to all Jews (who choose to remain Jews).

Second, the Phariseees were in reality humble and compassionate people who followed God's Torah. Religous Jews today are their spiritual and physical descendants and continue their beliefs. That is, they represent all Jews. Making false and vicious accusations against them is most certainly antisemitism. Also, there is no evidence that jesus even existed, never mind that Jews had anything to do with killing him. It's just like the later accusations against Jews that we poisoned wells and murdered Christian children. All are vicious lies that encourage antisemitism .

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The Old Testatment is just as critical of Jews as the New, and for the same reason. It doesn't preach anti-semitism, but it chides God's chosen people for their sin and unfaithfulness. That is what all the texts you cite are saying - not one of them is anti-semitic.

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This is wrong as well. The prophets' harsh rebukes were nothing compared to the vicousness and outright lies of all the antisemitic verses in the gt. They didn't make false accusations against the Jews and they never claimed that the Jews were sons of Satan or had never known God.

[Note: In Judaism, Satan is a loyal servant of God, just like all the other angels. Angels don't have free will and they always follow God's will. So satan is not some evil being that acts on his own. But what Christians mean by it, they are essentially saying that the Jews are evil and opposed to God. In making those accusations the gt authors are demonstrating their pagan backgrounds and their lack of knowledge of Judaism. More about the Jewish view of Satan:
www.outreachjudaism.org/satan.html]


The prophets criticized Jews who weren't following Torah, telling them to return to God and Torah, while the gt authors harshly criticize and vilify Torah-observant Jews, and encourage them to abandon Torah and follow their god (jesus) instead. There are several gt verses that say various laws don't need to be followed, and Paul outright states that jesus has replaced it (Romans 10:4). There also several verses from the Hebrew bible (which I've listed in other posts) that specifically command us not to follow people like jesus and the gt authors. So the message of the gt is actually the complete opposite of what the prophets told us.

[bossJJ]

The verses you quoted do show the writers or (allegedly) jesus expressing a warm attitude towards Jews. However, they pale in comparison to the number of vicious antisemitic attacks. Despite allegedly having these warm feelings towards Jews, they falsely accused them of all sorts of things and viciously attacked them. They are portrayed as an evil, stubborn, spiritually blind people opposed to God. And that is how many Christians viewed Jews until fairly recently in history.

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There is simply no statement in the New Testament that vilifies Jews because of their race or nationality. The religious criticisms have to do with those who are specifically hypocritical or otherwise transgress God's laws. Gentiles are just as criticized, if not more so, as Jews therefore you would have to say the New Testament is anti-Gentile.

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I did not claim that it's because of the Jews' race or nationality. However, to a Jew being persecuted it really doesn't matter whether the antisemite is doing it because of his beliefs or his nationality. Christians murdered Jews for their beliefs, while the Nazi murdered them for their nationality. All are just as dead. Antisemitism based on theology is just as wrong as any other type. My point was not that it's racist, but that it's just as wrong as racism, with the same results.

To claim that the gentiles in the gt are criticized just as harshly is laughable. Several verses vilify "the Jews" (the context making it clear that it applies to all Jews who choose to remain Jewish). Where are the verses that make such harsh generalizations against "the gentiles"? How many of their leaders are falsely accused of sorts of crimes and alleged transgressions? Did jesus go in any of their places of worship, threatening them with a whip and vandalizing the place? Have Italians been tortured and murdered for centuries for allegedly killing jesus?

The attacks against the Pharisees were completely unjustified. With one or two possible exceptions, ordinary (non-Christian) Jews are portrayed in the same negative light. An example is jesus’ parable of the good Samaritan. Both a priest and a levite refuse to help the injured man. Knowing that the people of Israel consist of priests, levites and Israelites, one might expect that a simple Israelite would then help the man. But of course not. The message is that no Jew is capable of a simple act of kindness. Rather, it’s a Samaritan who helps the man. The gt isn’t just disagreeing with Jewish theology, it’s vilifying all Jews.

[Note: Having been to Israel several times, I can say that whenever anyone is hurt, he immediately has several people who rush to help him. Virtual everyone who passes by will stop and offer to help. If a woman wants to get a baby carriage onto a public bus, a group of people always lifts it onto the bus for her. If a car breaks down in the road, passersby and other drivers immediately stop to help. I have never seen an exception to this. It is much different in Western countries, where people don’t want to get involved, and often won’t even notify the police.]

[carlo]

Judaism and Christianity are two ends of the baton-No one should ever try to twirl a half baton.

The competion of the Old Testament prophesies can only be considered in an evolutionary sense, in history; that gift that the Old Testament people brought to the world.
To expect an event to happen in one point in time without movement in time is "maddening reason", ego centric and irrational.

To understand the spiritual nature of human beings(objectively) is the only road to questions being contended in this post.


The concept of "unbornness" contradisticted "immortality" should be considered.

The Christ Being is not a human spirit but that spiritual being, known by all religions prior to the event in palestine 2100 years ago under many different names. The Christ incarnated into the body of a great initiate, Jesus of Nazareth, at the baptism by John at the age of 30. This Christ Being walked the earth for 3 years and is now the spirit of the earth where previously he acted from without.

This Christ impulse is in the hearts of every man but it will not be perforce as the human spirit will bring freedom into the spiritual worlds buttresed by love. The earth is the planet of love. He so loved us that we act in freedom and thusly the Lucerfic Fall and knowledge of good and evil.

regards,
carlo

[NotReady]

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First, many of the verses speak of "the Jews", not specific subgroups of Jews


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When any of these verses say "the Jews" it is clear from the context it is not referring to all Israel, but to the Jews involved. This is so clear it doesn't require defense.

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I showed the verses that spell out at that it is ALL Jews (who choose to remain Jews) that are guilty.


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No such verse exists in the NT beyond the general accusation that ALL humanity is guilty, Jew and Gentile alike. Jews as such are never singled out as being any worse than Gentiles, on the contrary, they are referred to as God's chosen.

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On the contrary, the surrounding verses explain that it is because of their Jewish beliefs


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Not because of "Jewish" beliefs in general, but false beliefs concerning God, beliefs that are contrary to the OT.

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Second, the Phariseees were in reality humble and compassionate people who followed God's Torah.


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I don't know anything about Pharisees from extra Biblical sources. If you're saying that the characterization of the Pharisees in Jerusalem at the time of Christ is false, please provide sources.

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It's just like the later accusations against Jews that we poisoned wells and murdered Christian children. All are vicious lies that encourage antisemitism .


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This is a sad debate technique. I'm talking about the NT, why bring up non-NT stuff?

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They didn't make false accusations against the Jews


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Question begging.

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But what Christians mean by it, they are essentially saying that the Jews are evil and opposed to God.


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This is absurd and proves my point that your only interest is painting Christians as anti-semitic. What does the Christian portrayal of Satan, based on the Bible, have to do with anti-semitism?

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The prophets criticized Jews who weren't following Torah, telling them to return to God and Torah,


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Pretty much what Jesus was saying.

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There are several gt verses that say various laws don't need to be followed, and Paul outright states that jesus has replaced it (Romans 10:4)


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It is self-evident that if Christ was the fulfillment of OT prophecy concering His sacrifice for sin, the ceremonial laws are no longer necessary.

[NotReady]

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vicious antisemitic attacks


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Why do I get the feeling that if anybody criticizes a Jew for any reason you will call him anti-semitic? PC syndrome?

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I did not claim that it's because of the Jews' race or nationality


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You certainly implied that, over and over. You constantly repeat "all Jews" and go on and on about anti-semitism, which certainly means race or nationality.

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Christians murdered Jews for their beliefs, while the Nazi murdered them for their nationality.


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I'm talking about the NT portrayal of Jews.

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Antisemitism based on theology is just as wrong as any other type.


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I agree. Such antisemitism doesn't appear in the NT.

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Have Italians been tortured and murdered for centuries for allegedly killing jesus?


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Keep doing this and I am not going to continue.

[vulturesrow]

Im not sure what this is supposed to mean. The fact is that I have very little time to respond the myriad posts that boss has written. Ive repsonded when I have time but he clearly has much more free time on his hands than I do. I think that I have a more than adequate job in the reponses Ive had time to write. However since you seem to think I havent done an adequate job of debating this issue than I will not post on it any longer since it was your OP/idea. Good luck trying to win the 8 million.

[Peter666]

First time for everything.

What would you consider a valid term?

[masse75]

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If your father believes that your lack of faith in Jesus Christ will earn you an eternity of pain and suffering in hell after you die, and he does not spend his every waking moment attempting to convince you of the truth of his beliefs, then your father does not love you very much.

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On the contrary. His father knows that he can try to convince him as much as possible, but it is the son's decision to make (or not). A damnable concept--free will.

[ThreeMartini]

"I picked mathmeticians and scientists because thy are simply the most intelligent." D.S.

Quite presumptuous.

Intelligence (n). The act of knowing the exercise of understanding.