88

[jgunnip]

[ QUOTE ]
ok, lets look at the other option. limping. here is what limping does for you. it gives you an option to get it in against the sb if he pushes AND the BB calls. THIS way, you only have to beat one of them to stay alive. this method is risky, but can gain u a lot of chips. i dont necessarily like it though, as i think straight up pushing is quite a bit better.

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't seem right and maybe you meant something else. But if SB pushes and BB goes AI and you call you have to beat SB to stay alive. Beating BB but losing to SB is no good (in a staying alive sense). It is also a possibilty, in the same situation, that BB wins the hand but SB beats you (for example if BB has TT, SB has 99, and you 88). Obviously this type of situation is very rare and probably why nobody has mentioned it thus far. But anyway, I guess I'm just trying to get clarification on what you meant.

peace

[bengele]

I did some calculations with your range using average chips instead of average EV because I think it is more accurate.

Average Chips
282
1864 (you) 26.93% by ICM
1910
5944

Over 3% difference from yours. Helpfully I did the math right.

[Moonsugar]

If you assume SB pushes with any 2 you will win 50% and have 34% equity. You will lose and SB will lose and you will be out 25% of the time but have gained 20% of the pool. You will lose and SB will not lose 25% of the time and have 0% equity.

Sum of the weighted averages of these is 22% equity. It is the worst strategy possible.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
This doesn't seem right and maybe you meant something else. But if SB pushes and BB goes AI and you call you have to beat SB to stay alive. Beating BB but losing to SB is no good (in a staying alive sense). It is also a possibilty, in the same situation, that BB wins the hand but SB beats you (for example if BB has TT, SB has 99, and you 88). Obviously this type of situation is very rare and probably why nobody has mentioned it thus far. But anyway, I guess I'm just trying to get clarification on what you meant.

[/ QUOTE ]

if i am small blind and utg limps, im pushing pretty much any 2 from the sb, to get the dead chips from utg in there. beating the sb and losing to the bb IS good for you, as you have around 3k chips, which really helps you. so i think you might be a bit off in what you are thinking, or i am, who knows. but again, i said i dont really like this method, so bleh to that. POOOOOOSH. holla

[adanthar]

Like I said in my original post, if you or some other guy I know is very good is the SB, I push for sure.

Anyway, if you're pushing 52, it's fine with me, because even ICM is going to say an 81% chance to double up is good here. 70-30 with dead money in the middle and the BB calling some chunk of the time is probably close to break even so fine, I'll take A4, too. If you have KQ or AT you're probably calling a push anyway so where's the difference?

Also, I don't know how much it matters, but I play AA-QQ this way, too.

Limping sucks because what's gonna happen is SB will complete something like top 90%, BB will quite properly check, the flop will come T74 or A72 or QJ3 and a decent SB will bet all of them. Congratulations; when the BB folds, you've wasted 300 chips and are about to play for third when he folds the next hand too, big stack raises any two and you eat that same 450. Maybe - I mean *maybe* - I'd limp some weirdo hand or aces if I thought SB would bite for sure, but not eights.

I don't mind pushing either. It's a tradeoff who the SB is.

[Nick M]

I am not sure if anyone sees this play or not. If you limp you give the SB a chance to call. If the BB goes all in, it is more than half so you can now re-raise all in and knock out the BB. It's tricky but It might be a nice move to consider if you are thinking about limping. It's like a back up plan. Not sure if anyone mentioned this play.

But ahhhhhhh I move in here hahahah every single time.

[HoldingFolding]

I presume BB folded and you went out in 4th?

[UMTerp]

I'm shocked at how clear-cut everyone seems to think this is...

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm shocked at how clear-cut everyone seems to think this is...

[/ QUOTE ]

well folding is wrong, and calling is wrong, what does that leave?

[UMTerp]

Nobody's proved calling is wrong. Everyone's just like "Push. duh." But then you look at the math, and calling's EV is higher.